Help on my tone!

Andy Zahnd · Post by **Andy Zahnd** » 1 Jun 2003 12:04 pm

I need realy bad some help. I have the best equipment you can wish, I got everything that I can think of, I know I have good right hand technic and I'm working real bad on my left hand... but when I'm playing, I hear just dead strings, no soul, no tone and sound, someone else is playing my gear, wau...it sounds great, so I come up with the idea that this is my personal problem! Any idea how I can make my days? What can I do sound/tonewise? I'm so frustrated! Thanx for all your help

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 1 Jun 2003 12:28 pm

Hi Andy
have you come to this conclusion from listening to yourself "while" you play or have you recorded yourself and listened to it ?
if you have recorded it,share it w: us so someone can help you.
kinda like a picture ( worth a 1000 words)

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Steel what?

Andy Zahnd · Post by **Andy Zahnd** » 1 Jun 2003 12:31 pm

no, not recorded yet my stoff, except our cd, and that sucks anyway.... will do it and get it to you! thanx buddy!

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 2 Jun 2003 8:43 am

sound and tone change in relationship to your ear angle, how far from amp, etc. the sound would be different if you had your amp behind you on stage, and then have someone play while you were 20 feet or so in the crowd

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 2 Jun 2003 8:49 am

If it's sounding too thin or twangy, try to keep your right hand about half-way between the bar and the bridge. That might help. You'll discover that tone varies quite a bit with the position of the right hand.

No, not that kind of bar!
No, not that kind of bridge!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 02 June 2003 at 09:49 AM.]

Daniel J. Cormier · Post by **Daniel J. Cormier** » 2 Jun 2003 10:14 am

bob's right again . If you play on top or near the pickup you get a really thin or mid tone and some of the strings may sound dead. have somelse play the guitar and watch the position of their right hand. Then play the guitar ,moving your right hand around untill you find the sweet spot.

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Daniel J. Cormier
Mullen D-10 8/7,GFI D-10 8/5 ,Tubefex, Peavey Sessions 400,Peavey 212 Transtube,Nasville 1000,Peavey 400 Limited.

Andy Zahnd · Post by **Andy Zahnd** » 2 Jun 2003 10:37 am

thanks, will try everything out....
hope my days comes back! Thanks also to Larry and Hans who e-mailed me..... will get back to you asap!
have a good monday eve!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 2 Jun 2003 5:09 pm

why don`t you try to sit behind your guitar,put your hands on it and play,make love to her.If you`re honest and play with your heart,trust me,she`ll sing to you...

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Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 2 Jun 2003 8:12 pm

Andy

Not being familiar with your sound, in all honesty it would be hard to make recommendations to you.

The "best" recommendation I could give you would be to record yourself! Take every chance you can to record yourself and then "critique" yourself (like the next day or so). In the past I have found this to be invaluable. It can tell you an awful lot about your tone, technique, intonation, etc.

Just use a portable recorder set at a reasonable distance. I personally like to record far enough away from myself that I can reference myself with the rest of the band so that I can tell about my volume as compared to the rest of the band, etc. The closer to "you" that you record, the more of yourself you will get. But, don't record too far away though!

If your amp is mic'd, recording off the board is good, but it won't tell you things about the room and how you sound in it!

A portable recorder placed "ambiently" in the room is best, especially if you can get someone else to run it for you. Who knows, sometimes you can even pick up a few nice remarks about your playing by people near the recorder who aren't aware they're also being recorde! LOL!

Good luck,
Dave

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 2 Jun 2003 8:43 pm

I kinda go with the guys that say you should record yourself, then be a merciless critic of your own work.
The other thought is, with respect to tone, I've been advised by guys that know alot more than I do to practice without your amp, to get a feel for the instrument and what kind of sound/feel it can produce on it's own. After that, the amp is just an enhancement. fwiw
-John

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 3 Jun 2003 12:12 am

The best advice on tone I ever read was from Jerry Garcia (yes, THAT Jerry Garcia). He said something to the effect that in order to get a good tone, first you have to have a good conception of what it is you're shooting for. If this means having a favorite player and then trying to figure out the difference between their sound and yours, so be it. It was a revelation to me that the sound that I wanted coming from my fingers wasn't necessarily the same as the sounds that I enjoyed from other players.

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 3 Jun 2003 1:53 am

You may also think of it as an extention of your personality/soul. I would like to think that while I'm playing, the steel is part of me.

Ad me to all of those that recommend you or someone else record you. You'd be surprised at the differance in tone you hear while playing and what it realy sounds like. I find that I'm concentrating more on what I'm playing than listening like I would do if someone else were playing.

Good luck in your quest.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 Jun 2003 5:27 am

Definitely record your self... with a decen tmic and recorder too.
I have a studio axiom I have always used "Tape is cruel". But the flip side is it gives you accurate feedback.

keep your right hand about half-way between the bar and the bridge.

This makes sense because you are picking the relative middle of the strings vibrating range
or closer to the fundamentals generation point. So more of the fundemental and less of the upper harmonics relative to it.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 June 2003 at 05:52 AM.]

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 3 Jun 2003 7:03 am

Damir's idea sounds good,,,,,sometimes I can't even make friends with mine.

Andy Zahnd · Post by **Andy Zahnd** » 3 Jun 2003 12:43 pm

Hey guys, you're great! Thanks for all the help and Information! And yes, I will record myself from now on. Will put something on the net asap. But only when I'm happy with that, what I hear!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Jun 2003 4:37 pm

Concentrate on just playing in tune. The best sound, tone, or rig in the world is just wasted if your intonation isn't acceptable.

Oh yeah, and turn down the mids. Steels have gobs of midrange.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 05 June 2003 at 05:39 PM.]

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 5 Jun 2003 7:03 pm

Don't pick the strings on top of the pickup or close to it. Move down to your left to get a softer tone. The first thing I do with a new guitar is to solder capacitors in between the pickup and the amp connection. This makes for a soft mellow tone also. Hugh

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Jun 2003 7:22 pm

Practice playing loooong tones. Play one note for eight beats, listening carefully, caressing the note (ooh!), and adding a touch of vibrato as it starts to fade. Damir is right: make love to the note. And record it while your making love. (Just don't try to sell it on the internet

)

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 5 Jun 2003 7:26 pm

Set up outside if you can, away from walls. I believe one can get a better idea of how you really sound, playing outside.

Rick

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Jun 2003 5:03 am

Scott said ;

It's as hard to listen well as it is to play well. Maybe harder.

Yes, this is so. I have trained myself to focus on elements of an instruments sound, or one of multiple sounds in a mix, and focus out other sounds.

And then dial, in at varying degrees, more and more elements, finally hearing it ALL as one element.

This is a very much learned thing. Most people do not hear with anything close to this focus, even the players listening to their on tracks.

But is a very usefull thing for a player, not just a sound mixer. It can let you know what your doing, but also what you are doing in relation to the other sounds in your instruments environment. IMHO

When playing live, whatever the instrument, I am still listening to all the sound and listening to how I fit in it,
as well as what choice of notes I play in it.
Sometimes more sometimes less, but I never becomes just the note choices.

3 good notes properly in time, tone and volume with the band, is worth more than 10 just listening to your amp.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Jun 2003 6:24 am

I'm with Jimbeaux. Try to play long slow chords or single note melodies with even volume and in good tune. Hymns and Bach chorales are great for this. This is a trick band and orchestra directors use for teaching young horn and string players to play with good intonation and tone.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 6 Jun 2003 8:55 am

Bitte die Flinte nicht ins Korn werfen!

Some really great responses, man if there's something more humbling/inspiring than listening to a recording of yourself I don't know what it is, but it works. I've found that picking harder, practicing with no reverb whatsoever, trying to get over my volume-pedal-itis, and using very little vibrato has helped me figure out what's what. Also, I feel moving to a 1 inch bar made a huge difference for me, as well as chrome vs. stainless steel, there is a difference. Hard to sound bad with a BJS bar.