Steel guitar collections STINK!

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 31 Jan 2003 8:48 pm

I have a friend here on Maui who collects steel guitars because he likes the sound of them but he does not play at all. Another guy I know owns a telecaster and does not play guitar. He told me he's waiting for the value to rise then he'll sell it. He's had it for 25 years.
I think for every guitar that sits unplayed in some dumb collection there is a person somewhere who would play it and love it if they had it. I know there are plenty of guitars and steels available if someone wants to buy one but not every music-loving person can afford to buy one. Put two ads in the paper, one that says, "guitar for sale $500" and one that says, "guitar for free, come and get it" and you'll see that a lot of people can not afford to buy one. If my parents had not been able to afford to buy a guitar for me when I first became interested in playing I might never have started. The same goes for Buddy Emmons and many others. What if Stevie Wonder's folks had not been able to provide him with a piano, a chromatic harmonica and music lessons when he was a kid?
Now and then I read an obituary in the news paper about some philanthopist who gave away millions of dollars and I marvel at that kind of generousity.
If you have a collection of instruments, give the ones you don't need away or sell them cheap. Don't be a pig. Somebody wants to play them and they should be played not collected. Collections STINK!
[This message was edited by Don McClellan on 31 January 2003 at 08:53 PM.][This message was edited by Don McClellan on 31 January 2003 at 09:28 PM.]

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 31 Jan 2003 9:24 pm

Don,
I feel the same way about concerts,(rock or country) where the artists,(I won't mention any names,but his first name rhymes w/ "barf") slams,& busts up guitars,just for "shock" value,& because they get 'em for free. Then,they have the nerve to display 'em in a H.O.F. Why don't they just give 'em to some kid in the audience,that would probably "die" just to have it,or donate 'em to some worthy charity to raffle or auction off, to help raise money for the org.? Can't you just see it now,"Luther Local donates guitar to the Shriners Hospital,to help raise money for them." It's (not the donation,the "slamming".) TOTALLY senseless,& I'll never understand it.

------------------
<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 31 Jan 2003 9:30 pm

I have a lot of guitars. At the moment, 9 of them are in various stages of rebuild/restore, 4 of the pedal guitars get played on a regular basis, depending on the venue, the Emmons is waiting to be rebuilt. Every one of the lap guitars and each of the resophonics sounds different, so again, some of them work on a regular basis and the others are there when needed. So that leaves the "personality" and historically significant guitars, 2 of which get played a lot, and none of them are for sale.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 31 Jan 2003 9:34 pm

Smiley, are you talkin' 'bout Garf?

Craig Stock · Post by **Craig Stock** » 31 Jan 2003 9:44 pm

A friend of mine who is a photographer got an assignment to go to Les Paul's house for a photo shoot. As he walked through Les's house full of Rock & Roll History (The Log, Amps given to him from the Beatles, etc), he told Les of a story when he was shooting the Who at Madison Square Garden, and Townsend smashed his Les Paul. Well, Barry got the end of the neck and after the show as he was in the elevator, Pete came in and Barry asked if he would sign it. Pete said "Sure mate" and pulled out a large knife and scratched his name in it. Fast forward to the present, Barry asked Les if it bothered him when guys would demolish his guitars, he said, "Every time they do that they had to buy another" and Les pulled out an electic engraver and signed his name on the same neck. A neat souvenier and a neat story. Maybe the one spent guitar made kids go out and buy another hundred ones, who knows.

------------------
Regards, Craig

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 31 Jan 2003 10:00 pm

I feel that way about stamps ... think of all those unmailed letters.

Personally, I see myself as the Curator of a Museum ... Yeah

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 07 October 2004 at 05:26 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 1 Feb 2003 8:12 am

What if Stevie Wonder's folks had not been able to provide him with a piano, a chromatic harmonica and music lessons when he was a kid?

Ray Charles would have had more gigs?

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 1 Feb 2003 8:48 am

Howard, your funny! I'm still laughing...

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 1 Feb 2003 10:25 am

The anti-collector sentiment that I have seen rampant in this Forum from my viewpoint is rooted in childish jealousy-I have met many wonderful people and had many great experiences that I owe to my having been able to accumulate rare steels and resos-things that would not have happened if I were just a player of the instrument-so if you think my collection "stinks" then ask Rick Aiello,Ron Randall,Dan Tyack,Russ Young, or any of the others who have gotten guitars from my collection here lately how they feel about it-Its not all about ME Don-many times its about doing good things for good people

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 1 Feb 2003 11:37 am

If you have a collection of instruments, give the ones you don't need away or sell them cheap. Don't be a pig. Somebody wants to play them and they should be played not collected. Collections STINK!... I know there are plenty of guitars and steels available if someone wants to buy one but not every music-loving person can afford to buy one.

Turn off the ***** tv and get a job, I had to work to get mine, you can do the same.[This message was edited by b0b on 02 February 2003 at 11:31 AM.]

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 1 Feb 2003 12:53 pm

I really kind of think this thread was meant as a joke because no one could be serious about being upset over the number of guitars any individual owns. If that is the case then you can puke in your wife's panties because I have 7 soon to be 9 steel guitars and all but one (push/pull) were custom built for me and the one that wasn't was completely restored. Am I going to give away or sell cheap any them away to a less fortunate person that wants to play but can't afford to buy his own? HELL NO!

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 1 Feb 2003 1:11 pm

Does this collecting fall in the same catagory as having more than one fishing rod, one hammer, one brand of scotch, one pen? :;

I just couldn't resist. Hey Mike, I don't need another steel, but seeing you have more than I do, would you give me one of yours?

------------------
SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 1 Feb 2003 1:27 pm

I would hardly think that donating the guitars from this collection, to the public, would be a prudent thing to do. Was the late Scott Chinery a pig? Does this collection "stink".? If the answers to these questions are yes, then pass me a heaping helping of slop....sorry, I'm forgetting my manners...please

Guitars from The Chinery Collection

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Many of the guitars displayed here are from the more than 900 instruments in The Chinery Collection in Toms River, New Jersey. The collection was established to identify and preserve instruments that are significant to the history of the guitar in America.
The collection is shared with a wide audience to increase public understanding and appreciation of our guitar heritage. This includes access by musicians for recordings and performances, as well as study by scholars, connoisseurs, and historians. The Chinery Collection also assists guitar makers, by providing documentation of vintage guitar construction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
[This message was edited by HowardR on 01 February 2003 at 01:28 PM.][This message was edited by HowardR on 01 February 2003 at 01:30 PM.]

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 1 Feb 2003 2:07 pm

Some times the cases on them 'ole guitars do stink a bit though...

------------------
Greg Simmons
Custodian of the Official Sho~Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Website

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 1 Feb 2003 2:43 pm

Smiley: I'm with you on this and have felt that way for years. Give it to a Kid in the crowd. The Fans will have much more respect and remember the kindness. That would be much better than destroying it--even if it is a Japaneese piece of S--t.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 1 Feb 2003 3:34 pm

The way I see it is,you work for it,you buy it and you play it.If that means 10 guitars,so be it.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 1 Feb 2003 4:34 pm

Damir-you have probably horsetraded more than that many in the last few months alone

Budd Kelley · Post by **Budd Kelley** » 1 Feb 2003 5:47 pm

Way back when the earth was still cooling, I watched the tonight show (with Johnny Carson)and there was a guy, (no, I don't remember his name - I am getting old) who sang a tune and played a flattop Guild. When he was talking to Johnny, he mentioned that he had recieved a "Tommy Smothers scholarship". It turns out that after the Smothers Brothers became well known, Guild started sending Tommy free guitars. Tommy was mad - he felt that the use of a pro model guitar would have been more beneficial before he was making enouogh money to afford any guitar he wanted.

Sooo - He traveled with his regular axe and with a brand new, never been played Guild. When he saw an unknown performer, playing a POS guitar, that he felt deserved one - he gave it to them. A Tommy Smothers scholarship. Much better than smashing it on the amp, soaking it in lighter fluid and lighting it up!

From what I have heard, Tommy never played one of the free Guild's. If he needed another one he bought it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 1 Feb 2003 8:58 pm

I feel instruments should be in the hands of musicians. I feel it's ok for musicians to collect instruments as long as they play them. I have 36 instrumnents, and have recorded with or used all but 2 or 3 on gigs. They all have different tones and personalities, and having such a wide variety allowes me to constantly vary the textures and flavors on my recordings.

I object to non-musicians who are buying up all the vintage Fenders and Gibsons and other great guitars to put in display cases, and driving up the prices to the point where working musicians can't afford them.

Another sad and crazy aspect of all this is that if you have a vintage guitar, if something goes wrong and you fix it, it becomes less valuable. I have a friend with a Leo Fender Music Man Sting Ray with Active electronics. A truly great sounding guitar. But the frets are worn down to the point where it can no longer be played. But if he has it refretted, it will lose it's value. So my friend is forced to play on an inferior guitar that doesn't have half the tone.

Like I said, sad and crazy.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 1 Feb 2003 11:03 pm

Mike, you raise some interesting points. I believe that we're at a place in this thread where they can be addressed intelligently.

Maybe not by me, but I'll give it a shot.

EVERYTHING, is collectable. Ever watch "The Antiques Road Show"? I get more of a rise out of that program, than some of the after hour shows on cable. But I digress.

Do you have to be a mechanic to collect automobiles? Do you have to be an artist to collect paintings or sculpture? Do you have to be a carpenter to collect old hand tools? Do you have to be gay to collect Barbie Dolls? (not that there's anything wrong with it....). Steel guitars are no different than any other object of Americana. Whether we like it or not, that is the reality of the situation, and it is not a new revelation.

With regard to your friend's Sting Ray...what was new twenty some odd years ago is now a collectable, as well as the tool it has always been. Your friend is hardly "forced" to continue playing an unplayable guitar, unless someone is holding a musket to his head. He merely has to make a realistic value judgement, as we all do when time moves on.

First of all, if the guitar is unplayable, it certainly is worth less than if it were in mint condition. If it has great historical value, monetary value, asthetic and intrinsic value, than maybe it should be in a display case. If it's not that valuable, and it is a tool that he needs in which to make a living, then refret it so it will be good for another twenty enjoyable years with the great sound that it was intended to have. There's a certain value in that, isn't there?. Not so sad, and not so crazy.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 1 Feb 2003 11:40 pm

This week's local magazine......

http://hometown.aol.com/hreinlieb/page19.html

[This message was edited by HowardR on 01 February 2003 at 11:44 PM.][This message was edited by HowardR on 01 February 2003 at 11:48 PM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 2 Feb 2003 4:27 am

Well said, Howard! Non-musicans have every right to buy and own instruments. Why should they have to live up to somebody else's ambiguous claim that only working musician's get to own instruments? In fact, I think it's justt great that some instruments are sitting unused in glass disply cases. That way, maybe our grandchildren's grandchildren will get a chance to see (and maybe hear) them some day.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 2 Feb 2003 9:05 am

Non musicians have the right to own instruments, but do they have the right to own the BEST instruments and keep them out of the hands of musicians? I'm not talking about Teles and Strats. There are enough of them to go around. I'm talking about things like DiAngelico jazz guitars. I think it's a sin for non-players to gobble up these magnigicent instruments and lock them up in display cases where they never get played.

The mechanics example doesn't hold water because cars are designed to be used by vast numbers of people regardless of whether or not they can work on them. They are not specialized tools with which highly skilled people create art.

As far as my friend with the Music Man goes, if it were me, I'd go ahead and refret the guitar and play it. But I think it's sad and crazy that this situatiuon has even come up. The guitar was designed to be played, and it should be refretted, and it's resale value should be based on it's functionality, not on it's rarity or whether or not it's 100% original.

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 2 Feb 2003 9:11 am

Non musicians have the right to own instruments, but do they have the right to own the BEST instruments and keep them out of the hands of musicians

......Only if they have the money to do so! You're whipping a dead horse on this one Mike.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Feb 2003 10:14 am

What are we doing now, discovering more "rights?"

Coming from the point of view of a collector, I'll contribute a couple of "oinks" since some guys probably think I'm a pig for owning the instruments in my collection. Instruments that I play professionally, incidentally. But probably more than one player "needs."

For years I was a working musician, which means "relatively poor." I had enough coming in though to live, buy a modest home, get most of the instruments I wanted or needed to make a living. Though I might have lusted over some primo pieces, I never blamed or heaped ridicule on the guys who did own pieces of that type, regardless of what they did or didn't do with their music. They simply had resources that I didn't have.

I realized that if I was to get angry at anyone for that situation, I should start with myself for not doing whatever it took to earn the bucks to afford the instruments I fantasized over. Or deciding not to spend the bucks even though I had the money.

I call it "taking personal responsibility for my situation in life." We are all the sum total of all the choices we make in life; you made yours, I made mine.

At some point back in the mid-1980's I made another decision. I went back to school while still playing music at night and ultimately got a good job in the newspaper business which allowed me to purchase some of the stuff I wanted for years, and also to take time off to go to steel guitar shows. Things I never could do while working in bands.

I also made a decision that I wanted to get some of the instruments I'd wanted for a long time.

But to find that stuff, I had to search long and hard, constantly asking for leads, checking want ads continuously, scouring the web, asking guys if they knew of instruments available, etc. It was work, and luck, and I had a little or a lot of both. Then I had to spend the bucks.

A person in the USA has the right to own as many of anything that is legal to own as he wants or can afford to buy. To say Person X has no right to own a particular instrument... or a particular "anything"... because he's not a "deserving player" (whatever THAT means) is just, IMHO, more politically correct bullsh!t that smacks of wealth redistribution and "class-ism." It's also juvenile whining based in envy.

Some guys want garage sale prices, but they don't want to take the effort to find and go to the garage sale. Or they don't want to spend the bucks necessary, but resent those that do.

This thread, as I take it, is not about providing instruments like Carter Starters to beginners who want to learn to play; this thread is directed at collectors. These are owners of special instruments. I own special instruments that I love and play, and that, my friends, is none of anyone's business but my own.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association