Red Rhodes

Bob I. Williams · Post by **Bob I. Williams** » 23 Aug 2002 9:01 am

Red Rhodes had a instrumental in the mid to late 60's that got quite a bit of airplay at least in the L.A. area. I played it back then but can't remember the name or any part of the song. any ideas? THANKS BOB

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 23 Aug 2002 12:29 pm

Bob: He had an album out that Tom Bradshaw had in his steel guitar record of the month club. He may still have it for sale and he is listed in the links in the Forum headliner. The title of the album was Velvet Hammer in a Country Band. There were a lot of instrumentals on there and yours may well be one of them. Sorry but I wouldn't hazard a guess as to which one it was as I liked them all !!

Regards, Paul

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 24 Aug 2002 7:22 pm

Star Route?

I assume he did it live on the Star Route TV show, and with Gene Davis at the Palomino Club. A recorded version is on Red's 1969 live album with the Detours recorded live at the Pal.
Larry Scott (the deejay) does the intro on the LP and probably gave ol' Red a bit of airplay on it.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 26 Aug 2002 3:33 am

That particular Album was on Happy Tiger label #HT-1003-S and featured ,Jerry Cole,The Cass Brothers with Dennis Hromek and Biff Adams.

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CJC

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 26 Aug 2002 6:06 am

I think Michael Nesmith [former "Monkey"]
produced/engineered Velvet Hammer with
Red Rhodes. Could have been Red playing steel
on Nesmith's semi-hit "Joanne".

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 26 Aug 2002 9:58 am

Hey Chip, That was Red on JoAnne and it was a beautiful job for sure.

Jason, I think you've got it with Star Route. That tune got some air play on the old KFOX radio station in Long Beach as I remember. I used to play it in bands and I think I still remember how it goes but then again I am getting old. Like they say, "If you remember the sixties, you weren't there" I don't remember much but I remember that song. I think there might have even been a 45rpm record of it. The last time I saw Red was in East Alton, Illinois. Jack Laux had a club and Red was in St. Louis for Scotty's convention and we went to Jack's club to see Red in action that night. It was like an old California reunion for sure.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 26 August 2002 at 11:00 AM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 26 Aug 2002 4:14 pm

Red Rhodes joined Michael Nesmith's First National Band in late 1969, and left the Pal' around that time, (although I reckon he played New Years '69/70 at the club, wouldn't you if you'd started there in 1960) and he played on the group's first three albums with Nez.
He later appeared on Nesmith's other albums up to the mid 1970s, and recorded on and off with Nez until Red's passing in 1995.

The Countryside Band and label was set up by Nesmith from 1972-1973 and folded due to label restructuring, Nez had no control on that count and that's why Red's Velvet Hammer LP is a little hard to find. Tom Bradshaw and Red reissued it in 1976 with a little reworking of the tracks.

ROBERT LEE CRIGGER · Post by **ROBERT LEE CRIGGER** » 2 Sep 2002 10:17 am

Red also cut some stuff with guitar-great Jimmy Bryant under the names of ''Orville and Ivy'' (their middle names) but I don't remember the song titles...I just remember Red was the bandleader at the Palomino Club in North Hollywood at the time.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 2 Sep 2002 4:05 pm

Someone taped me that album, it's got heaps of vocoder or talking steel effects, it's a strange album. Bryant isn't really doing any of his far out picking, while Red is burying his best licks under effects.
It's a good album, but if you're looking for a mix of Red's tasteful playing and some hot Bryant, well it's not there.

Having said that, I would still buy a CD reissue, but I buy all the Red and Jimmy I can find anyway.
The backing is by a version of the Palomino house band as well; Don Holiman, maybe Johnny Meeks and Biff Adams I'm told.

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 9 Sep 2002 5:35 am

That "Velvet Hammer" album was released under a diifferent name also. I have an album somewhere in my collection with the same tracks but with a different front and back cover on a different label. Very inventive stuff. Red was a true original.
Dave Ristrim

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 9 Sep 2002 8:18 am

I first saw Red at the big Capitol Records bash for Cousin Herb Henson in Bakersfield in '63. Ken Nelson had the country lineup of Capital that read like Who's Who. Capital released a double album of that event and I have regretted not buying that land mark event. Seeing Red playing, I knew he was a real pro and I was impressed by what I saw and heard that night.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 9 Sep 2002 8:27 pm

Gary, who was Red working with, most of the acts used the Trading Post Band, but not all of them. (Bob Morris and Buck Owens used the Buckaroos for example).

That is a cool album by the way.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 10 Sep 2002 10:28 am

The album of Orville and Ivy (which was Red and Jimmy's first names) had one local hit in Los Angeles. I don't know if it hit anywhere else, but it was called "Shinbone". I still play it sometimes but do both parts on lead guitar. I could do it all on steel but I don't have a pull I'd need to do the Jimmy Bryant part.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 10 Sep 2002 3:52 pm

Hi Jerry, yeah it was a case of the names they didn't use.
Red was born Orville J. Rhodes on December 30, 1930 in East Alston, Illinois.
While Jimmy was bom John Ivy Bryant, Jr., in Moultrie, Georgia, on March 5, 1925 (his middle name "Ivy" became a friends only nickname apparently.

On a side note, did any of you Californians, or ex-Californians keep any of the old Academy of Country Music Awards Shows booklets or newsletters.
Red Rhodes & The Detours were often up for the ACM Band Of The Year(Club)award and I'm wondering if there any real press info on the groups. The Detours would often go up against Billy Mize & The Tennesseans, the Carl Cotner Band, the Eddie Drake Band; and Gene Davis & the Starrouters.

Just a thought......

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 11 Sep 2002 11:06 am

Hey Jason,
I played with two of those bands! Billy Mize and the Tennesseans and also the Eddy Drake Band.
As far a Jimmy Bryant goes, on some of the tunes he wrote (or claimed to have written) he's listed as IVY J. BRYANT. One of those songs was "The Only Daddy That'll Walk the Line" which was a big hit for Waylon Jennings. That song was originally recorded AND WRITTEN by an LA musician named Jim Alley. On Jim's record he's listed as the writer. J. Bryant got the song as some kind of payment for a recording session is what I'm told. I don't remember for sure but we used Jim Alley on bass a couple of times when I was working with the Johnny McKnight band in Orange country in the sixties and I remember him saying something like that. At one time I had Jim's recording of the song. I think maybe JayDee even played on it so he might remember.
J. McKnight reminds me of a situation in Huntington Beach when Red Rhodes showed up one night. It seems that our bass player had borrowed a bass from Red when he was playing with him and ripped it off. Red came down to get it back. As I remember he was pretty hot about it which I can't blame him. Ol' Red had his own thing going on steel and should probably be in the HOF someday.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 11 Sep 2002 1:22 pm

Trivia question: What was Red Rhodes preferred or most used rig when he was playing?

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 11 Sep 2002 2:29 pm

As to Red's rig, he used a Fender through the 1960s, and updated as certain models came out.

Jerry, I didn't know you played with Eddie (Eddy) Drake, I recall you mentioning working with Billy Mize and the Foothill with Jerry Cole among others.

Jay Dee has mentioned the whole Jim Alley thing, as you mentioned, he confirmed the original single crediting Alley as the songwriter.

In regards to Red's gear, I know he tried a ZB and some others over the years, I'm sure there are others who have more details than I do. His style of customising pick-ups is being copied by enthusiasts to this day, especially Clarence White fans as Clarence's famous Stringbender Fender (now owned by Marty Stuart) had the pick-ups rewound by Red.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 11 Sep 2002 2:54 pm

When Red played in the house band at the Palomino Club in 1978 he played a Dekley. Whe he left the band and I took his place, I had to buy his shirt (remember those days?) His shirt had an ample cut in the abdomen area, suitable for maternity wear.

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 11 Sep 2002 4:36 pm

Ivy Jr. Bryant. As a small boy, around 4-5-6-yrs of age his daddy would take him to the tobacco marts and farmers market where he would play his fiddle.When he got tired and slowed down his daddy would switch his hind end and make him play.Jimmy always said he learned by the "switch method".When Jimmy and I moved to Goergia about 75-76 most of the people there called him Jr.. We had a son born in Burbank,Ca in 1962 and we named him Jimmy Bryant. I'm sure glad that I did not know the name Ivy at that time.Now both Jimmy's are gone and I miss them both tremendously! Regards,fred

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 11 Sep 2002 6:22 pm

Jason, that night the acts were coming and going so fast, it was a blur. When the group or singer got up with Red playing, I was so focused on him and watching his playing, I totally forgot who the lead was because he was more professional than some of the other steelers. I told you, I should have gotten the double album to keep it fresh in my mind. I simply don't recall who Red was with.

Jim Florence · Post by **Jim Florence** » 12 Sep 2002 2:26 pm

Pardon me for butting in but you guys that worked the west coast might remember my favorite steeler back in those days. Smiley Davis. Don't know if that is his real name or not. But he literally ate a four neck Fender up alive. But it was in the Oakland Bay area mostly.
Jim

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 12 Sep 2002 4:54 pm

(ps...if the pic doesn't show initially, click on this link http://www.geocities.com/indy_moose/mp3 )

Here is a pic a friend of mine just sent me. This is Red playing a live show with the First National Band (that's John London on bass). Red is using a Fender (400?) with his trademark stickers on the front apron. Though hard to read, there is "WARNING" under the keys, "X" to the left of the pickup, an oval "Have A Nice Day" sticker and "Erotic Art" right underneath his hand. I have been told the steel he had at his amp shop had pics of breasts and vaginas all over it. That Red

Also, you can tell the band is playing "Rose City Chimes"....this was one of the songs he played most frequently live, even throughout the '80s.

He mainly used Fender steels in the '60s to mid-70s, followed by a brief stint with Dekleys and another with Sierra. In the '90s, he was seen playing MCI.

Joe[This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 13 September 2002 at 07:33 AM.][This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 13 September 2002 at 07:33 AM.][This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 13 September 2002 at 07:34 AM.][This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 13 September 2002 at 07:47 AM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 12 Sep 2002 5:35 pm

Red was a cool guy.

He worked with us at Dekley in the late 70's, then went to Sierra with Gene Fields, then they were both at MCI/EMCI around '87 when I was doing some work there. Guess that explains when and why he was playing those guitars at that time.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 12 Sep 2002 8:52 pm

Thanks for jumping in everyone, I knew that there was going to be heaps of folks who knew more about Red's gear than me.
I've been waiting for you to show up Joe Alterio, I've got some more info for you as well, email me when you get the chance.

Earnest Bovine, you were in the Pal band, who was that back in'78, Jimmy Snyder's band or perhaps Ira Allen's?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 12 Sep 2002 8:56 pm

Snyder's band.