TC M300 Effects units for $149 new

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 26 Mar 2006 4:35 pm

I just saw an ad that showed the new TC M300 dual FX unit on sale at Guitar Center for $149. I think this unit is one of the very best steel guitar friendly rack effect units I've ever heard or had. Two engines, one is reverb, the other is a variety of delays and modulators and stuff. Very easy to use. No submenus, all front panel knobs, easy to work. Highly recommended.

Brad

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Mar 2006 3:39 am

I have a T.C. Electronics "G Major" and it's the ONLY effects processor that I've found that has programs that can be used for steel without modifying or creating your own.

The only caution is that many rack effects processors such as the Lexicon's and T.C. Electonics units are "line level", not "instrument level". I've had several e-mails from people trying to hook up line level processors and didn't have a clue as to the difference between line and instrument level and couldn't get them to work right and were noisy because they were using them either between the guitar and amp input or in an "instrument level" effects loop. The must be used between the preamp out and power amp input(s) or with the later Peavey Nashville 1000 and 112's they can be used in the Post EQ loop.

(Sorry to hijack the post but I had to mention the level issue, in case someone wants to buy one of these units and does not have an option for line level devices).

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 27 Mar 2006 4:50 am

Jack, that was the very question I was going to ask Brad. Thanks for the info. My pet peeve with FX units is the noise which they create.

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www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Mar 2006 5:21 am

John the old signal to noise ratio issue.
If you use a "line level" unit in an "instrument level" environment the signal to noise ratio will be low and it will have noise. If you take that same device and use with a higher "line level" the signal to noise ratio will be much higher and there will be no noise.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 27 Mar 2006 7:49 am

Thanks Jack. Yea, I didn't specify whether that M300 would work with instrument level inputs. It's strictly a line-level unit. I hear that so often with steel players how they claim an effects unit is noisy, when really it's just because their guitar couldn't drive the unit's input and they tried to make up for it on the back end, and got all kinds of hiss and noise by the time the level was up hot enough.

Thanks for that clarification.

Brad

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 27 Mar 2006 9:35 am

I can't see from the TC website... Does this unit have a Pre-Delay for the reverb, and if so, what is the longest time you can have? I really like predelay of reverb for steel.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 27 Mar 2006 10:45 am

Pete. It DOES have a pre-delay knob. I don't know what the actual times are, but I can tell you that it offers plenty of pre-delay time, more than you'd probably want to use. It seems to cover any realistically usable range of pre-delay. I'm with you. Reverb with no or too little pre-delay seems to make the steel sound too far away. There's a theory out there that pre-delay settings of longer than 35 milliseconds can help to create enough separation between the dry source and the onset of the reverb so that the reverb doesn't "pull" the source away from you, but leaves it sounding up front.

Brad

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 27 Mar 2006 11:09 am

I started this thread mainly because I've found that the M300 works perfectly in my personal rig using the Revelation tube preamp. I know that some guys are using things like Profexes and other effect unit/preamps that will accept both instrument level and line levels. But this M300 is line level only which means it must be placed in a true line level loop or following the line level outputs of a preamp. My preamp has both an instrument level loop on the front and also a full line level loop on the back. So I use the front loop for my volume pedal and maybe an overdrive, but then the M300 is hooked up to the rear of the Revelation preamp using the actual line level FX loop. I set the M300 at 100% wet running both of its engines in parallel. Then I use my FX control on the front panel of the Rev pre to mix in the M300. For those with Evans or Peavey amps, you would just run the M300 in the line level effects loop and control the FX mix on the M300 itself.

Brad

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 27 Mar 2006 11:45 am

I'm guessing the effects loop on the Walker Stereo steel is Line level also, no?
Run the mix at 100% then dial it in with the effect level knobs.
'Might have to run over to GC and check one out.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Mar 2006 12:09 pm

Unless it's specifically stated, most "effect loops" are at instrument level.

Check how the Stereo Steel's are set up from the factory. If they run from the preamp to the effects processor and then to the power amp most likely the effects loop is only instrument level.

Many preamps only have instrument level (but if they should have line level since mostly they are used with rack effects processors which are primarily line level).

I have a Rocktron "Sidewinder" preamp in my rack system and it does have a line level effects loop (and where I run my T.C. Electronic G-Major). That offers a lot more flexibility than having to run it between the preamp and power amp. The old Blue Tube II preamps would work with both line and instrument level.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 27 Mar 2006 12:43 pm

I shot GD an email with the Line/Instrument level question.
FWIW, His website says "any stereo effects". http://www.stereosteel.com/features.htm

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Mar 2006 2:33 pm

It looks like the Stereo Steel does have a "line level" effects loop by the description. But, unfortunately he does not have any technical spec's on his site so I can't say 100%.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 28 Mar 2006 7:52 am

GD emailed me back and says the effect loop in the Stereo Steel is "Line Level".
fyi,
pb

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 30 Mar 2006 9:44 am

Jack, I thought "Line Level" was how high a clothes line was. Jack, I thought "instrument level" was how high your guitar is off the floor. This unit looks interesting to me, I would like to check one out. By the way, my pedal will accept either line level, or instrument level signals on the input. The output of my pedal is line level, so feeding this unit would be no problem coming out of my pedal.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 30 Mar 2006 12:22 pm

Keith it could be "power line" or "telephone line"...

That's nice to know about the pedal. I assume it's a 1:1, e.g. if line level is input to the pedal then it will output at line level, but if instrument level in input then it will output instrument level. Is that a correct assumption?

BTW, I like the T.C. Electronic units over the much ballyhooed Lexicons. I tried two different Lexicon MPX-1'w when I was looking for a new effects Processor. Both had hardware defects in them (both were new) and I didn't find any effect programs that I could use without some modification. The T.C. Electronic G-Major has several steel guitar useable effects in the factory programs. I haven't had the need to modify them for steel use. Basically all I did was move what factory programs I wanted to the User memory so they were all grouped together for quick access. About the only negative is they are not as easy to program as a Peavey Profex II or the later TubeFex and Transtube Fex.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 30 Mar 2006 6:56 pm

Jack, if the input to my pedal is line level,the output is line level. If the input to my pedal is instrument level, the output is still line level. The input of my pedal will take either, but the output of my pedal is always line level. Jack, why did you buy the G minor unit instead of the one Brad is talking about? Would the one Brad is talking about be as difficult to program?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 31 Mar 2006 3:23 am

Keith, I've had the G-Major for almost two years. The M300, according to the description on the Musicians Friend site will only do two effects at a time. It has two effects processors in it but you can only get one effect from each processor at a time. The G-Major, like the Profex II will do more than two effects in a string. It's probably similar to the Lexicon M1 in features but it is designed for musical instruments where the Lexicon is not primarily aimed at instrument use.

One other local Steeler saw and heard my G-Major and bought one and dumped (sold) his Profex II about a week after he had the G-Major.

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 31 Mar 2006 9:05 am

Thanks Keith, you answered my question.... before I even asked it. I use your VP into a Lexicon MPX 110, and have not noticed noise... and now I know why.

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Melvin Farmer · Post by **Melvin Farmer** » 31 Mar 2006 3:48 pm

I have a Super Twin Reverb with a line out on the back. Will this work with the TC M300? If so, will someone give me the correct way to hook it up. I do use the Hilton pedal. Thanks,

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Melvin Farmer