Homemade Varitone - possible?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 14 Mar 2006 4:14 am

In wiring a standard guitar, is it possible or reasonable to take a 5-way Strat switch and wire a separate capacitor to each position? One position would run the signal through a .047uf cap, another .022, .01 etc. This would be in addition to a standard selector, volume knob, and possibly even a standard tone control.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Mar 2006 4:21 am

Oh sure, it's possible...but it wouldn't give you anything you don't already have with a standard tone control. Varoius capacitor values would simply attenuate the highs to different extents, and that's exactly what a regular tone control does.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 14 Mar 2006 1:27 pm

I beg to differ on Donny's assumption. I have changed the capacitor on certain guitars and the whole character of the tone pot changes. Usually I feel that the low range on the pot is unusable. Cut the value of the capacitor in half and the whole range was usable and no positions of the pot really sounded similar to any setting using the original value. If you do the math, it can be seen that the rolloff frequency is different with different values of capacitance, with the pot dialing in how much drop will occur above that rolloff frequency.

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 14 Mar 2006 1:40 pm

A Varitone circuit also has an inductor in the circuit. It's not just different cap values. Here's a link to a guy that sells a varitone circuit.
http://www.bigdguitars.com/varitonespec.htm

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Mar 2006 8:57 am

Well Michael, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Decades ago, I tried dozens of cap values and found that most higher values just reduced more highs. When using extremely high values, some of the pots rotation had little effect, indicating that a different value pot was required to still have full rotational effect. But even then, the resultant sound was too muddy. All that said, this type of passive tone control on a guitar boosts nothing, all it does is reduce the highs, and also the amount of signal from the pickup. For the tone control pots in most guitars, a .02-.05 cap is just about optimal. You can try significantly higher or lower values, but the results will probably be unusable or inconsequential, for the most part.

I always advise players who want maximum tonal dynamics to invest in an active graphic equalizer. Even an inexpensive 5-7 band stomp-box graphic EQ will give you sounds and tonal textures that no passive circutry can even come close to. In addition to reducing a particular frequency, it can actually boost a particular frequency band, whereas the simple passive R-C circuits cannot. The tone circuits in a guitar, or in most amps (even those with mid, shift, and slope controls) are merely a simple/cheap compromise.

Few players on this forum realize the myriad of sounds and tonal variation their guitar is actually capable of. And the sad fact is, that without ever trying an active graphic EQ, they'll never know.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 15 March 2006 at 08:58 AM.]

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 15 Mar 2006 3:39 pm

David, You said you would run the signal "through" different caps. Does that mean the caps would be in series with the signal lead. A standard tone control connects a cap to ground.
If you put caps in series, you will block the lower frequencies. As the cap value decreases, it blocks more low frequencies.
Actually, when I play a lead guitar I set the controls wide open to get the maximum frequency response from the pickup. I then use the EQ of the amp to tailor the sound, just as I do with steel guitar.

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www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 15 Mar 2006 4:01 pm

A cap and the "tone control" pot in a guitar control the tone. Unlike the others, a switch with different cap values that could be switched in with the tone control pot would be an interesting project. Whether it's really practical is another issue.

I'll think about it tomorrw while I'm at Sea World in Orlando at the Budweiser "hospitality house".

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 15 Mar 2006 7:16 pm

A SWITCH WIRED UP WITH DIFFERENT VALUE CAPS, WOULD GIVE A DIFFERENT "SOUND" WITH EACH SWITCH SETTING... ADDING AN INDUCTANCE WOULD ACT LIKE A CHOKE AT CERTAIN FREQUENCIES, AND SINCE WE ALREADY HAVE AN R L C CIRCUIT, CHANGEING THE VALUE OF ONE, DIRECTLY CHANGES THE FREQUENCY
RESPONSE OF THE OUTHER, I.E. THE PICKUP [COIL]
THE INDUCTANCE... THE NATURE OF AN INDUCTANCE
ALLOWS YOU TO TUNE IT TO A BROAD RANGE OF FREQUENCIES, BY ADDING OR SUBTRACTING NO. OF TURNS,,[COIL WINDINGS] ADDING CAPICATOR VALUES, SUBTRACTING SAME.. ADDING RESISTANCE OR SUBTRACTING SAME....A MAGNETIC TRANSDUCER HAS THE PROPEITYS OF , INDUCTANCE, RESISTANCE, AND CAPICANTANCE, WHICH MAKES IT AND RLC CIRCUIT IN AND OF ITS SELF... CHANGING ANY PART OF THE [ L ] COIL WILL CHANGE THE " TONE ' AND 'OUTPUT " VOLUME...
HOPE THIS IS NOT CONFUSING, BUT IT IS A LOT OF FUN TO EXPERIMENT....I LOVE TO..
JENNINGS,,U PK;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 15 Mar 2006 8:25 pm

I always thought the Gibson Varitone would be great to have...until I bought an ES-345 with a Varitone. The further you turn the Varitone away from the normal sound, you get thinner supposedly brighter tones, it does work that way but because it's passive circuitry, the more mids and lows you filter out, nothing compensates for the loss of volume resulting from filtering out so much of the spectrum. Also, that guitar never sounded right to me even when the Varitone was in the Normal position. I disconnected the Varitone and wired the guitar as a non-Varitone model and it sure sounded better to me. I'm a believer and my ears tell me, that the less (passive) controls and crap in your guitar, the better the tone. YMMV. If you want lots of tones, I'd recommend a Variax over a Varitone. Or like Donny said, just get a graphic EQ.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 15 March 2006 at 08:34 PM.]

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 16 Mar 2006 1:28 am

I agree completely about the graphic EQ, I have a stereo one in my rack that I can use to make my steel sound like a Les Paul etc., and a couple of stompbox ones that I consider indispensible for fixing certain things - for example, making a fuzztone or wah-wah into a truly musical device rather than an annoyance.

The specific tone spectrum I'm trying to control is the very high end, above 7K or so. I've been playing electric guitar with fingerpicks a lot lately, and when I set up an amp with ideal tone for flatpicking then switch to the fingerpicks, the tone gets too shrill and clicky, especially with overdrive. You can cure that by rolling off the highest sliders on a graphic EQ (and fiddling with the attack time on a compressor), but I am looking for a quick, one-switch fix so that I don't have to reset my rack every time. I gather that using a .022uf cap instead of a .047 one makes the lower end of the tone control more useful for single coils, and subbing a .01uf cap for a .022 does the same for humbuckings. My only objection to adding a stompbox EQ is that it adds one more stage of "transistor-tone", and if you add this early on before your overdrive it can get icky.

I am going to be building up a new Warmoth custom guitar this spring/summer and it seems like it might be easiest to just install a varitone to find out about this stuff, rather than disassembling my new toy every other day and changing bits around to see what happens. That link above leads to a guy who makes varitones for $40, if he's willing to mess with stuff that tiny for that price he might get my business for sure. I might even end up settling on a single cap with a mini switch eventually, or none at all, it just seems like changing them one at a time is tedious when you can do the gangbuster effect all at once.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Mar 2006 3:24 am

My old 61 Chet Atkins PX6120 Gretsch did not have a "tone control". Instead there was a 3 position switch (two tone modification positions and the center was off - no tone modification).

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 16 Mar 2006 5:56 am

You could build the varitone into a stompbox. it doesn't require battery power. I think that Charlie Stringer-Snarling Dog stuff used to offer one. They still do.
http://www.snarlingdogs.com/products.html

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 17 Mar 2006 1:17 pm

I have a 6-string in which I put a rotary switch and 6 different values of capacitor (bleeding the highs to ground) many years ago. The way it changes the tone is definitely different (to my ears) than a single capacitor through a pot. At this point I don't have much use for any kind of passive tone controls in instruments, but if I were going to have one I would use this arrangement again.