Distortion or compressor first?

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 18 Jan 2006 5:32 pm

Two stomp boxes, which one should I run first?

Larry Behm

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 18 Jan 2006 5:37 pm

I'd definitely go with the compressor first. (But, of course, everyone hears a different choice 'o sounds in their head.)

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 18 Jan 2006 5:38 pm

I'm not saying my way is the only way, but when I used a compressor I put it first, then into the distortion box. I had the compressor always on with low-level compression. That way when the distortion is on, the compressor helps maintain the distortion level and seems to add to the sustain.

There may be other reasons for putting the distortion first too...but I preferred it this way.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 18 Jan 2006 5:43 pm

Hi Larry:

I asked this question some time ago and the following replies to the thread are here:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/001772.html

Regards,
Lenny

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 19 Jan 2006 3:05 am

The reason you might want the distortion first is because at certain settings, picking attack and/or the volume pedal can be used to control the degree of distortion - this is the "sweet spot" of tube amps that six-stringers rave over. If you pick a three-note arpeggio very softly and it comes out clean, then dirties up as you pick harder, you're in there. Most pedal steel pickups are a lot more powerful than standard guitar pickups, and overpower the input stage of a guitar-designed overdrive, essentially turning tube amp overdrive simulators like a good Tube Screamer into nasty fuzztones anyways. There are "good" and "bad" Tube Screamers: http://www.analogman.com/tshist.htm
I use a little MXR Dynacomp before a Tube Works "Real Tube" unit, both to attenuate the power and to smooth the tone - by varying the sensitivity on the compressor I can still get some picking dynamics. This signal then goes to a rack compressor, also. This is not at all unusual: http://www.amptone.com/g126.htm
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>Hookup for original recording:

1. Guitar
2. EQ (use your quietest EQ unit here)
3. Compressor
4. Overdrive
5. Preamp distortion
6. EQ (often available here via OD/dist box and in amp)
7. Tube power amp, speaker, mic
8. EQ
9. Compressor
10. Headphones and monitor (listen to both, for reference, while adjusting settings).</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's worth looking over that whole site, like: http://www.amptone.com/g021.htm

The most important thing to me is going stereo or splitting the signal somehow, so you can blend in clean signal - Dan Tyack references this in the thread named above. If you want to see how rich rock stars (with roadies to tote their stuff) do it, there's some setups listed here: http://www.guitargeek.com/
Steel players can learn a lot from rock guitarists, if effects sound "bad" it's maybe not entirely their fault. In response to a question from somebody else I wrote a magnum opus explaining my whole setup which I could email you, but specific brands don't matter as much as the theory of what you're trying to achieve.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 19 Jan 2006 5:38 am

This has pretty much been answered here already, but I'll chime in anyway.

There are two completely legitimate approaches here. The most common I've seen is to put the comp first and then an overdrive/distortion stage. With the comp first, you get an evened out level hitting the overdrive stage which gives a more even, sustained amount of overdrive, regardless of how hard or soft you play. That's very useful if that's what you're after.

The other, less common approach is to put the overdrive/distortion before the compression. What this does is allow you to use your picking dynamics and also your guitar's volume control to get varying amounts of overdrive and expression. If you pick hard you get more dirt and if you pick softly or back your guitar volume knob down, you get a cleaner tone. This allows for a much wider range of expression. Then with the compressor after the overdrive, the overall volume gets evened out, but the character of the sound and tone is more controlled by the player. This lets you use a drive pedal and take advantage of a whole range of overdrive amounts by merely turning up or down your volume knob. Without a compressor pedal after it, the volume drop is too much. With the comp' there after it, the different sounds all come out evenly loud. The best example I've heard of this approach is Trey Anasasio of Phish. You never missed a note no matter how clean or dirty it got.

Also consider how a compressor clamps down on your pick attack keeping the attack clean. An overdrive/distortion pedal lets the pick attack bite and distort, which can be very useful. Whichever pedal is first will determine this.

I'd say experiment with both and see which one suits you best.

Brad

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 19 Jan 2006 12:49 pm

True.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 19 Jan 2006 4:35 pm

I always run (6 str guitar) 1st into my tube screamer. Firstly, it buffers my signal, and secondly it allows my picking attacks to effect the tube screamer. If I'm NOT using my normal rig(SF Deluxe, one channel compressed, one not), I only use compression for certain chimey songs, but always last in my signal chain. Just the way I like it. My son does the opposite, I like his tone too. JP

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 19 Jan 2006 10:15 pm

With a decent OD or distortion your volume knob or pedal becomes an integral part of the effect. Turning down a notch cleans it up, turning up brings out the drive characteristics. A compressor then smooths out peaks and valleys in the level but doesn't have so much of an effect on the distorted tone. Honestly though I rarely use them both at the same time, when I play dirty I WANT the attack to be heard, and dynamics to shine through. Compressors are for clean, IMO.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 20 Jan 2006 7:10 am

Jim, that's funny you say that. I had been using the distortion before comp for the past 15 years until I saw your boy, Jim Jr. recently and, like you said, he puts the comp first. He sounded great. I came home that night and switched it around. I think I told you that your kid is my current local guitar hero. Killer player. You're no slouch yourself, of course. Must be in the genes

Brad

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 20 Jan 2006 6:43 pm

Robert Keeley (king of the pedal modifiers [url=http://www.robertkeeley.com)]www.robertkeeley.com)[/url] likes the compressors after the overdrive..

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 21 Jan 2006 6:37 am

Neither, just use an amp like a THD BiValve and you get natural compression and overdrive with no little boxes.

When I used pedals, I used an Orange Squeezer before the overdrive pedal.

------------------
www.tyack.com

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 21 Jan 2006 7:29 am

Just thought I'd mention it. Fellow forumite and audio electronics wizard/genius, Scott Swartz built me a compressor pedal that just may be the best compressor pedal I've ever heard (or had). It's a very clean, opto compressor based on the classic LA2A type circuit. But it's for guitar signal level, not hot pro studio level. It's just an amazing comp and stays totally clean with steel pickups. Nearly invisible compression. I've got the Keeley which is a real nice cleaned up version of the famous Ross comp. I've got the Ross too. The Ross is a slight mod on the MXR Dyna Comp. All are great and have their character, but this opto pedal that Scott made is in a whole league above that. I don't know if he's into making more of these, but they sure would impress the clean country pickers and steel players who use comp's. Great work Scott.

Brad

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 21 Jan 2006 9:35 am

I have used both for years and feel the compressor should be first in line... Most of the old analog multi units[some of which were GREAT]always had the comp first in the chain,judging from the schematics I've seen.

that being said, for a while I used a small half rack DBX 163 compressor LAST in the chain, and got wonderful sound that way also..just had to re think things a bit...usually, floor based stomp boxes belong BEFORE the OD ..IMHO.... bob

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 21 Jan 2006 7:07 pm

So Brad, how do we get more info on that compressor??

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 21 Jan 2006 8:07 pm

I like the compresor last. After the speakers. With no battery.

That way it can't possibly suck the life out of the guitar/amp setup's tone.

Compressors work great for electric 12-string (to avoid the "sitar falling down a flight of concrete stairs" sound), or Tele if you want to sound like 27,000 other Nashclones.

My take - put it in a box and never take it out, unless you need to hold down a stack of papers..