use of Roland Midi

Stanford Lane · Post by **Stanford Lane** » 4 Nov 2005 2:25 pm

g

I am seeking information from anyone regarding the use of MIDI thru my steel. I see that Roland has a guitar MIDI synthesizer (the GI-20) which appears to meet my needs. However, I don't know if this synthesizer will work with my CarterD-10 of my National Console. My band does not have a keyboard player. So, we are needing some way of synthesizing a fiddle, sax or a piano from time to time. Any suggestions? I have done a forum search and the last posting on this topic was in 2003. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 4 Nov 2005 3:53 pm

This is a frustrating topic, as Roland has the technology, but not the right pickup for steel.
Apparently, the only way is to use two pickups and stagger them in just the right alignment and you can get it to work.
Do a search for forum member Ed Packard, if I'm correct, he devised a way to modify the standard system from Roland.
What with the curved pickups and 6 string poles, etc., it isn't easy.
Nothing beats the IVL Steelrider though.....

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Nov 2005 4:23 pm

Local music store owner and steeler, Johnny Bondz has one of the Rolands rigged up on his SD-10 Sho-Bud. He only gets 6 strings but he has it working very good.

If you want to call him, Bondz Music 352-748-5048 (Wildwood, Florida).

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 4 Nov 2005 5:30 pm

Howdy Stanford, I read where Tony said it's a frustrating situation getting the pickup to work. Well that's where the hard work and frustration stops and it really gets tough going LOL.

After you do get it all set up and working properly you then begin to start having fun and learning how to play your synth.

I've played a midi synth on my strat since 1984 and the hardest part of the whole process was learning to play like the different instruments that I was now capable of playing and number 2 dealing with the delay/tracking of the midi converters.

When I first got my midi synth controller the delay of the processed note was awful sometimes up to 80 ms and if you didn't play very slowly and delibertly it triggered ghost notes which really sounded bad.

Well as time went on it got better and now the delay and false triggering is much better. If you buy the roland GI model you will have to buy an outboard synth to trigger and that is the slowest way to go but like I said it's almost playable now maybe only15 to 40 ms delay when processing the note.

If you buy the roland synth like the GR-33 it has an onboard synth and it eliminates one of the conversion steps in the process and makes the tracking almost instant. Maybe 2 to 10 ms delay which is almost negligable.

Now Roland has made several midi converters with built in synths and some of the earlier models like the GR-50, GR-09, GR-20 and so on had great tracking but the synth engine was sub par.

They were usable on things like Trombones trumpets, sax's, strings and synth pads but the main reason why most musicians want to play these are for the pianos and the acoustic pianos were pretty lame. If you tweak them and play only in certain registers they were usable but not great.

When the GR-3? series came out they upgraded the synth engine to that of the Roland JV series synths which was quite an improvement.

So these are just a few things to consider when getting into the midi synth biz

Stanford Lane · Post by **Stanford Lane** » 4 Nov 2005 7:12 pm

Hey guys,
Thank you for your insight into my question. At the risk of exposing my ignorance, Imust ask,what is the IVL Steelrider? It appears that I may be better off buying a MIDI keyboard and taking piano lessons. Thanks again Tony, Jack, Bob and Chris for sharing.

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 5 Nov 2005 4:52 am

Hi Stanford, the pitchrider was made back in the 80's and it was actually one of the few or possibly the only one that was made for steel guitar. Terry Bethel use to have one and he used it very well. He learned to deal with the delay pretty good and played a lot of convincing string and horn lines.

They are one of the ones that I spoke of being kind of slow because of the age of them and then having to send the converted signal out to an external hardware synth. That being said I have heard several steel players use them and do a very good job sounding like pianos, strings, horns and so on.

There was someone on this forum that had one not to long ago. You could do a search and find that thread and maybe find even more info on the IVL Steelrider.

Bob

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 5 Nov 2005 5:58 am

I believe Mike Brewer uses a Steelrider. He gets very good pianos and horns with it. I think they're pretty hard to find now, they've been out of production for a long time. I have Roland GR-50 and GR-1. I use them with Biab and Powertracks with an Edirol sd-20 for the sounds. I've thought about putting a pickup on an Artisan lap, have not tried it yet. The song "That's All" on my website used the Gr-1 for the flute, the tracking was good.

------------------
Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 6 Nov 2005 1:34 am

Hey Howard I just came from your site and I really enjoyed your biab recordings and you done a great job with your roland synth I loved the flute it was very convincing. Keep up the good work buddy.

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 6 Nov 2005 8:47 am

Bob, you just made my day, thanks. I'm looking forward to the dvd of you and Murph from Winston May.

------------------
Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 7 Nov 2005 3:45 am

Your welcome Howard, I know that it takes some time and effort to make those songs then record them especially with your roland midi synth.

I have noticed over the years that a lot of players get a midi synth and just play guitar licks thru a horn or flute and it just doesn't sound real. Don't get me wrong it sounds fine but not realistic. So keep up the good work

Bob

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 12 Nov 2005 10:41 am

I have done a lot of experimentation with all of the Roland midi systems. With some of them I have had some small successes. Overall, though, I have found them less than satisfactory for steel guitar. The main reason for this is that the frequency filters in the Roland Op Amps are oriented specifically to the six strings of a guitar. I spent a lot of time working with the Shadow management in Germany trying to get someone to come up with a modification that would improve the Roland system. Because of the small market future for steel guitars, they just didn't want to invest the time and money. You can hardly blame them for that.

Bob Lawrence is doing some good work on producing a new system that will use the guitar pickup for the source. It will be smaller, cheaper and faster. Let's all wish him success in this effort.

The Steel Rider is still the only steel system available and it still way ahead of its time. I have heard a lot of complaints about the delay but that has never been a problem for me.

There are a lot of the Steel Riders not being used because of failures in the pickup and preamps. Now that I am here in the Dallas area my plans are to reproduce some of the pickups. After I find someone to make the PC boards and the coil pole pieces for me assembly time will be the only limitation aside from how much I have to invest in this effort.

------------------
Mike Brewer