Tube Vs. Solid State, Fender Steel King

Shaun Marshall · Post by **Shaun Marshall** » 18 Oct 2005 3:04 pm

Just curious why solid state seems to be more used then tube amps for steel guitar these days ? Most of the regular guitar players I know wouldn't be caught dead in public with a solid state amp ? I noticed the new Fender Steel King is also solid state. Al Perkins uses a tube amp as far as I know and his tone sounded so great on the Gram Parsons tribute DVD.

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Shaun Marshall

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 18 Oct 2005 5:03 pm

Solid state is lighter, louder, lower maintenance, and cheaper than using tubes. But it's hard to find people who say solid state sounds better. Tubes rule.

Flame away...

Brad

Home of the Steel Guitar Black Box
and the Revelation Tube Preamp www.steelguitarblackbox.com http://www.steelguitarblackbox.com/revelationpage.html

[This message was edited by Brad Sarno on 18 October 2005 at 08:17 PM.]

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 18 Oct 2005 5:57 pm

Hey Brad,
Fix this guy up with a Black Box,and make him happy.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 18 Oct 2005 6:41 pm

Brad,
You forgot that S.S. play's "cleaner" at higher volumes.....Jim

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Oct 2005 6:45 pm

Al Perkins uses a tube amp as far as I know and his tone sounded so great on the Gram Parsons tribute DVD.

On the other hand, everybody at the International Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis used solid state amps...so I guess they all sucked.

Shaun, some tube amps sound great, but there's some pretty good solid-state stuff out there too. My advice is to use whatever works for you. Just remember that no amp will make you a great player, you have to do that part.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 19 Oct 2005 12:33 am

Most of the regular guitar players

Blues and rock guitar-players require over-driven sweetly-distorted sound to get sustain in their playing. That's the biggest reason why those players won't use solid state. Steel players generally want only the sustain produced naturally by their instrument and their playing. That means that while many steel players prefer the sound of a tube amp, the main reason for guitarists ONLY playing tube amps (overdriven sustain) is not needed by the steel player. Interestingly, jazz guitarists go through similalr debates. Since many (if not most) do not want unnatural sustain, they don't need that characteristic of tube amps and will play solid state amps. Others on the other hand will only play tube amps because they like the sound better. Since a lot of jazz is often played at low volumes, a low power amp of either type is all that is required.

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Jeff's Jazz

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 19 Oct 2005 6:46 am

Nonetheless, there is something different about the King, in that it will overdrive ever so slightly at high volume...and that gives it an edge that other solid state amps don't seem to have.
I LIKE IT!

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 19 Oct 2005 10:02 am

Have you heard the Nashville 112 when it is "on the edge"?

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 19 Oct 2005 10:18 am

Is the SS/tube amp difference because of the tubes, or because of the output transformer that tubes amps use.

Could it be a difference in damping factor (output to speaker coupling)?

If it is because of the tubes, which ones (power output stages or closer to the input)?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Oct 2005 10:25 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...or because of the output transformer that tubes amps use.

Could it be a difference in damping factor (output to speaker coupling)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe Ed. An easy way to answer that would be to hook up 2 tube-amp output transformers (back-to-back) to a solid-state amp!

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 19 Oct 2005 10:54 am

On the other hand, everybody at the International Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis used solid state amps...so I guess they all sucked.

I beg to differ. There were a few who had some tubes in the mix.

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Randy
click here
[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 19 October 2005 at 12:01 PM.]

Shaun Marshall · Post by **Shaun Marshall** » 19 Oct 2005 11:16 am

Thanks for all the feedback (no pun intended) I did not know about the black box, will investigate. I'm new to the forum and this is just so great to get this kind of shared information, thanks all !

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Shaun Marshall

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Oct 2005 4:07 pm

I beg to differ. There were a few who had some tubes in the mix.

Oh...so then it was only most of them that sounded sucky?

I stand corrected!

(LOL!)

(Everyone that I heard sounded pretty good.)

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 19 Oct 2005 5:02 pm

If you AB the 2 different types of amps in a closed environment, many would prefer tubes. On a gig in real life, there aren't 2 people in a 100 that culd here the difference( Brad would be one). I have proved this time and again with 6 string. Most everyone runs thru a solid state device of one kind or another, tube amp or not, like a profex, or POD, or tubescreamer or whatever. There are way more important factors than tubes that effect tone. JP

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 23 Oct 2005 3:39 pm

We just finished our RI steel show....all the players simply played loud, without miking the amps, so we heard the true sound of each amp.
Out of 13 players, I have to say the best sound by far was from Dana Flood with his Steel King.
(Second best to John DeMaille!)
Admittingly, tone is certainly in the hands of the players as much as anything, but the Steel King sound was noticeably different and rich sounding from all the others.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 23 Oct 2005 11:04 pm

I just picked up a Steel King and I am very happy with it for live gigs. The sound guy ran out of mikes at a couple gigs I played this weekend so I used the direct out xlr. It worked great. Its a very well thought out amp. It didn't cut it in the studio compared with my 66 Showman though. Tubes really do sound better as far as I'm concerned. I use the Steel King as my little work horse and I like it more and more as I get used to it.

Bob

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 24 Oct 2005 8:39 am

Tony, I agree with you about the FenderSK tone. I was blown away by the sound that Dana got from his FSK at your show. So much so... that I am ordering a FSK today!

Some other factors to consider: Dana was playing a 1960's Emmons D-10, using a Boss RV-3 for reverb/delay, and he's a great player!

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 31 Oct 2005 5:39 pm

I have not found a tube amp that I really liked for the steel since I sold my old Fender Showman 15.It was a great amp for lead guitar also. But was a bear to lug around.I have a 67 Twin Reverb in my music room and I don't care for the sound with any of my steels.I have not tried the Steel King yet and really don't plan to soon. The only one I have heard live was with a Carter guitar. The highs were thin and screechy. But that was do doubt the pickers fault.Some of us can mess up any combination of equipment..LOL

Bud

Skip Keane · Post by **Skip Keane** » 1 Nov 2005 4:25 pm

Tube! Tube! tube!!!!
It got to be a tube amp... I use an ampeg gemini 1966, and practice with a 1965 ampeg jet sounds wonderful... I also have a leslie 122 speaker system with a tube Univox vintage reverb I use when I want to really get the vintage sound going...wonderful ....There is nothing that matches the warmth of the vintage tube amps.
thanks,
Skip

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 1 Nov 2005 7:20 pm

Tube vs. solid state sound is really like chasing the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow. We steel players are never satisfied with our sound, no matter what comes out of the speakers. I've had tube amps ( Fender Twin, Vibrolux ) and solid state ( Peavey Nash 1000 and Nash 400 ) and also a hybrid Peavey Mace. They all sounded great, until I got that bug in my head that said "You need something different". I just recently started using two amps ( Nash 1000 & 400 ) with my ProFex 2. I love the sound I get with the combo. It's a lot to drag around, but, I like the overall sound I get. In fact, I actually hit the wrong program at the RISGA show, on one of my tunes, and it still sounded great. I guess when I get tired of carrying all this stuff, I'll downsize the system again. I think it's great to have all the options with amp selections. It's really personal preference to one's sound.... Dana certainly did sound terrific at the show, but, so did Doug, Merle, Terry, Sam, Manny, and all the rest. The amps being used were Fender, Peavey, Walker Stereo, and ShoBud. All fine amps, being played by fine players, within a very good acoustical room. That's another factor we have to deal with, but, that's a whole new topic to post. I'm just glad we have all these choices to complicate our lives and rejuvinate the grey matter. I think ?????