Anyone else Rethinking the NV112?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Jul 2005 10:34 am

After playing a mikeless gig with my Nvl400 and getting immediate comments from the rest of the band to the effect that it didn't sound like I was having to push it as hard to get a good well defined "sound". It wasn't that big of a job either, just a standard 50'-x100'- dance hall. I think I might narrow the uses of the 112 to miked gigs, or double amp jobs.

Hmm...

EJL

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 Jul 2005 11:08 am

No. I see no reason to not use it and it's very seldom that I work a job that is miked. I've also got a NV1000 and a stereo rack system but all I've been using since I got the NV112 back in late Feb is the NV112.

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 23 Jul 2005 11:31 am

I'm with Jack. I just packed my equipment to go play a 250 seat Opry House gig, and the 112 is what I'm taking. It's got plenty of power and the best tone you can hope for. Why break your back?

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 23 Jul 2005 11:59 am

I used mine at a 987 seat gig about 4800 sq ft no sweat CC

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Jul 2005 12:03 pm

It was kind of strange as I've played most of a hundred live gigs with it, I did notice however a bit more "headroom".

No way I'll ever lug that 500 around again, but the 400 might be making the trip a little more to the single amp gigs.

We'll see. Maybe someone else has had a similar experience.

EJL

Gere Mullican · Post by **Gere Mullican** » 23 Jul 2005 12:25 pm

I use my NV112 exclusively because its the only amp I have. Have played some pretty big spaces and never cranked the volume up past about 3. I am only using a MXR Dynacomp and the amp. Not using the DD3 or DD5 any more.
Gere

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 23 Jul 2005 12:29 pm

I've had no problems with mine. I like it alot!
I haven't played it much beyond Pre at 11 o'clock, Post at 3 o'clock.
I used it in Stereo with a Fender Deluxe Reverb at the Tracy Lawrence opener the other night. Sounded great! (they mic'd only the Fender).
The only re-thinking I've done about the 112 is keeping it rather than selling it (I got it in a trade and originally thought I would sell it right away).
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 23 July 2005 at 01:30 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Jul 2005 12:38 pm

Well it was strange because I had not noticed it myself. I did notice the compressor kicking in once in a while, but it's a great compressor.

I've been miking the 400 and using the 112 as a "monitor" amp with the reverb cranked for "me". Other than that, I've used the Lwz out of the 112 to the board and it actually sent more bass to the board than the SM57s seem to off the 400.

The 112 seems to handle even the bass of the C6.

I'll check it again tonite.

It's sure a great amp, but like all good things it's seeming to have limitations.

Using a tube amp for the second amp is certainly a great thing too.

I was considering getting another 112 but I've been offered a couple tubers lately.

We'll see.

EJL

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 23 Jul 2005 12:45 pm

"I was considering getting another 112 but I've been offered a couple tubers lately."

Eric, no small potatoes!

Hope you can get 'em for PEANUTS!!!!

[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 23 July 2005 at 02:20 PM.]

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 23 Jul 2005 12:49 pm

Your comments help our R & D department with future steel projects. Thank you.[This message was edited by Mike Brown on 25 July 2005 at 08:47 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Jul 2005 1:19 pm

Mike.

If I can get closer to "what it is" I'll certainly be posting it.

Maybe the 15 inch speaker, and there are some advances being made in efficiency.

The only real suggestion I have come up with so far is to somehow eliminate the "beer vent" in the top. Maybe with side out venting, and a convection flow channel inside the cabinet. I dunno..

Thanks

EJL

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 23 Jul 2005 5:06 pm

It's the N400 for me.( or more)

I don't think it is fair to compare a solid state 80 watt amp to a solid state 250 watt amp..or whatever the 400 is..

they are not the same amp..and are not supposed to be..

Eric, the WHAT IT IS factor is that spare ultra clean reserve you have when you hit your volume pedal and the force of the N400 ( or more) lets you know in no uncertain terms whats behind you with NO CHANGE in tonal characteristics.

Our gigs can be a tad on the loud side on the stage, not excessive but forcefull and usually not mic'd..a single 12 will not cut it for me..

Eric I like what you said about using the 112 as a monitor..I have been thinking about that as part of my rig as well...

I use two amps, the 400 is for stage presence and is positioned UNBLOCKED , the second amp is more of a monitor ( Hot Rod Deville) which I also use for the Tele..., This is not for volume..but rather clarity...

my backup Steel amp is a Session 400 Limited...

On smaller rooms where space is an issue it's the Hot Rod Deville for both Steel and Tele...

Someone a few weeks back had this similar discussion and referred to the rigs as A and B..the A rig being the bigger amp and the B rig being the N112..several replied they had 2 rigs but were both A rigs...

If you are playing a very large room, you may feel the N112 is covering the entire room..but chances are it is not..

The 112's are fine little amps but they are not intended for every player / every gig..If it works for you then great but it is NOT an amp which is to be compared to the class of the Sessions, 400's/1000's...thats not it's purpose in life.

Thats like saying I don't need my Twin anymore, I'll bring a Deluxe Reverb from now on...When you bring your Twin you know what you got..when you bring your Deluxe Reverb you know what you DON'T got....

it's not always about volume...

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 July 2005 at 04:15 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 24 July 2005 at 04:16 AM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 24 Jul 2005 12:22 am

I could get by with the smaller amp - I use a Crown D150 sometimes, about 70 watts, with a single 8 ohm JBL D130F - but the smaller speaker is a big limitation. One 12" speaker, no matter how good sounding it may be, just doesn't move enough air for me.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 24 Jul 2005 4:44 am

If you wanted to have one set of tone controls for the whole thing, wouldn't be easiest (and cheapest) to use the NV112 as your "monitor" but pull a line out the back into a Crown or Peavey CS400 or something, driving a separate speaker cabinet? It's more trips to lug stuff, but it only takes one "mistake" to fry your back.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 24 Jul 2005 11:57 am

Dave, Based on your recent Duffs gig with Keeter, was your amp moving enough air for you that night?
Just trying to get a feel for how you calibrate Volume vs Loudness vs Tone.
I'm thinking I like to hear more air moved by the steel (if that means I can hear the steel player prominatly in the mix)... but not sure if, for example, a 12 and a 15 are moving the same amount of air, is that the same loudness?... and then what about tone.
Thx,
Pete B.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 24 July 2005 at 01:13 PM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Jul 2005 12:22 pm

I've been extremely happy with my Walker Stereo Steel Rig lately, but still take the 1-12 to some small venue gigs. Great amp, holds up well for C6, but a loud band in a medium venue may get close to the "end of headroom". The only things I don't care for on the Nashville 1-12 are the top vent and the positioning of the control cut-out- way too easy to break/bend the pot shafts. And maybe if it came in lime green snakeskin?
Killer amp.

------------------
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 24 Jul 2005 1:39 pm

Of COURSE people are re-thinking the N-112. They re-thought their Twin Reverbs, their Session 400's, their Webbs, Sho-Buds, Fenders, Gibsons, Fords, and Chevrolets! I've heard some guys get good tone out of the N112 (I help run a steel show, 4 times a year, so I've heard a LOT of these things), and some guys not get good tone.
Al the improvements (15" speaker, more power, etc.) would take away from Peavey's intention with the N112---to build a light, small steel amp. I agree, the top venting is a bad idea---it's a bad idea with Marshalls, too, BTW---and the problem with the controls SHOULD be addressed. There is NOT, nor will there ever be, one amp for everybody---thankfully.
Kinda like tuning, I guess...

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 24 Jul 2005 3:02 pm

(.. spits ice tea over keyboard....)..

Yup..

I used the 400 again last night, and due to a couple comments other than the bands' I'm gonna be using the 112 just a little less.

Maybe it's cause I've used the 400 a lot more in the last 13 years, and I'm used to it.

I"m certainly carting the 112 as a second amp. Damn nice little package for sure.

Dave.

I heard it nicely. I agree. I was there though..

Get it?

EJL

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 24 Jul 2005 3:31 pm

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 13 November 2005 at 12:52 PM.]

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 24 Jul 2005 6:07 pm

After my show the other night the sound man who is also a musician came up an wanted to know what I was playing through. It was the NV112. He was amazed how the sound was filling up the room and not harsh or hurting anyone, and he said the tone I was getting was great, and that is was clean yet still warm. The warmth could have been from the ZB. It was one of the larger dance halls I've played with a big dance floor, and the place was moderatly filled up with people. The NV112 has become my workhorse amp. If for some reason I need more juice, I'll bring the Webb along.

Bill Bosler · Post by **Bill Bosler** » 24 Jul 2005 6:21 pm

I worked an outdoor gig last evening and needed just a litle bit more "oomph" out of the NV112, so I ran a mike cord from the XLR output on the amp to the mixer board. Bingo! We got the sound we needed and no screwing around with mics and mic stands. What a nice amp.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 24 Jul 2005 7:22 pm

Dave, Based on your recent Duffs gig with Keeter, was your amp moving enough air for you that night? Just trying to get a feel for how you calibrate Volume vs Loudness vs Tone...not sure if, for example, a 12 and a 15 are moving the same amount of air, is that the same loudness?... and then what about tone

I'll try to be more lucid, Pete --
When backing a singer-songwriter I generally lay back in the mix and try not to step on the vocals (everybody repeat after me: "when the singer opens their mouth the band comes down"). I had lots of room to spare come solo time and I heard from many respected musicians there that my solos were cutting through fine. I couldn't hear the acoustic guitar well, either, which also caused me to lay back more than usual in the mix. Still, in the future I will most likely add a second cabinet on the opposite side of the stage or set the amp on a chair to the side rather than on the floor right behind me to cause me to open up the throttle a bit more so that others could hear the comp work better. Always thinkin' of ya....

There is no question in my mind that a NV112 couldn't possibly have done that particular job as well as the Randall did. I was pushing pretty hard occasionally to keep up with the bass amp and drums which were right beside me.

As far as loudness / volume / tone I'm not certain what your question is. In technical circles the term "Loudness" generally refers to the Fletcher/Munson human hearing response curves (more lows and highs make a given signal seem "louder" at a given sound pressure level, a subjective term not connected to actual SPL) - this is also related to the subjective spectral phenomena most folks call "Tone."

"Volume" refers to an objectively measureable sound pressure level. A given SPL can often be achieved by speakers of different sizes, but the smaller ones will always work harder, induce more distortion and produce a waveform that is more easily blocked or otherwise altered by furniture, fixtures, warm bloodbags and the like.

A 12" can't possibly move as much air as a 15" speaker. To generate an equal SPL the smaller speaker has to affect a smaller volume of air MUCH more radically than the larger one. This increases amp and speaker induced distortion, weaker low end response and a significantly less cohesive waveform at distances and off-axis. The larger speaker system will always have the more "defined" sound that Eric mentioned at the top of this thread.

Is that sort of what you wanted to know?

------------------
<img align=right src="http://www.pdxaudio.com/dgsept03.jpg" width="114 height="114">Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 24 July 2005 at 08:42 PM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 24 Jul 2005 7:39 pm

Don't misunderstand me, guys, what I've heard from others playing the NV112 is all really good PSG sound, it just can't keep up with some of the bad boys I play with without help from the PA system, which is not always an option.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 24 Jul 2005 8:03 pm

I do notice that it sent a fatter signal through the XLR.

MVA.

I too noticed that the pot shafts bend. Never had that happen with the 400.

I really do keep amps I buy and I plan on having this one for the duration.

A couple of caps and a speaker in the 500 in 20 years, 12 trouble free in the Nvl400, a hundred or so solo with the 112, and more than a couple thousand paid gigs between the three, and I've got no complaints.

If Mike wants suggestions from the "foxhole" then they are here.

Acknowledgement that there was a differentce in slot sizes on the old BW15s and his willingness to take suggestions into consideration has put it first in mybook of amps to buy.

Peavey's getting him for cheap.

Great guy.

I was always kidding about the logo...

EJL

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 25 Jul 2005 6:48 am

Roy Peterman has been playing around here a lot lately and is using a pair of 112s with his Derby--straight-up--no effects. It is one of the finest sounding rigs I've ever heard.