fender amp question

Ron Victoria · Post by **Ron Victoria** » 28 Aug 2005 7:12 am

I would like to move onto a fender amp from my Pevey Bandit. I see Fender makes new tube amps. I don't necessarily need vintage. How much should I expect to pay for new or used Fender tube somewhere around the 65 watt range?
Ron

Roger Kelly · Post by **Roger Kelly** » 28 Aug 2005 8:27 am

I'd say around $800.00 new, and between $350.00 and $600.00 used.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 28 Aug 2005 10:58 am

Ron, I got a new Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb from Guitar Center, kept it for four days, and returned it. It was a little over a grand with tax (MSRP $1,495). I was looking for a light-weight, tube type, to use with my Fender steel guitars. My Webb 6-14E is hinda' powerful for home practice. I like to practice at low to moderate volume.

This 40 watt tube, with two 10" Jensens, had a lot of hiss even at low volume. I may be spoiled, using the Webb for so long (It's the only amp I have.)

I didn't realize how good the Webb sounds until I tried out this Fender amp.

For me, the key to setting the "tone-shaping" controls on the Webb for home practice, was to roll every control back to zero and roll them up in increments until I had the most pleasing tone (for my ear).

The return policy of Guitar Center is a good one __ full refund if returned in 30 days. They have a good selection. You may find something you like.

Rick

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 29 Aug 2005 7:34 am

Rick. you must have gotten a bad Fender. I have a Fender Vibrolux Custom. I love the sound. no hiss. all tube warmth.
I run my lap steels and pedal steel through it.

I will be playing through a Webb this coming wednesday. I will pay attention to compare.

but mine never had a hiss.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 29 Aug 2005 7:35 am

Moved to Electronics from No Peddlers.

------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Aug 2005 2:06 pm

I've yet to see a big Fender Tube amp that didn't hiss! It's a characteristic of the high-gain tube stages in most of the bigger amps. The "hiss" is extremely high in frequency, so if you keep the volume low and don't turn up the treble, you probably won't notice any hiss. But, if you run the volumes and treble up, you'll surely have some hiss, even more when you activate the "Bright" switch!

Trivia: The hissing sound is nothing more than the sound made by millions of individual electrons hitting the plates of the preamp tubes.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 29 Aug 2005 3:08 pm

The hissing sound is nothing more than the sound made by millions of individual electrons hitting the plates of the preamp tubes.

Donny, I don't want any electrons hitting the plates of my tubes.

...kidding of course.

Your analysis is correct. This Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb (It could be that this amp. was defective.) was not what I had anticipated. The sound of a transistor radio in a large coffee can would not be far off the mark.

I suppose if one wants the max. range of bass, mids. and treble in a tube type, one must buy either a Twin/2 twelves or a Twin/ one 15".

...don't mind paying the price for the amp; but I don't have a good place to garage the forklift.

[This message was edited by Rick Collins on 29 August 2005 at 04:09 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 29 Aug 2005 3:47 pm

Ron.. Please be advised.. The new Fender amps are NOT as reliable as the older ones,and are pricey.. They use Printed Circuit boards,not hard wiring like the old ones... The new ones sound nice ,but IMHO DO NOT sound as good as the originals..

You can get a beautufully maintained Silverface from the 70's which will sound better and be more reliable than a new Fender, will Increase instead of decrease in value,and WILL last the rest of your life with just routine maintainence,Probably CHEAPER than a re issue..

Just consider a clean Fender from the late 60's early 70's before you decide to buy a late model Fender which in the opinion of MOST, is an inferior product to those built 25-40 years ago... bob

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Aug 2005 3:52 pm

Rick, the biggest problem woth the V/Reverb amp isn't the power (only 40 watts) or the speakers, but the lack of a mid control. Since you can't "scoop" the mids to get bass response, you have to run the amp higher. Therefore, the noise factor goes up when you try to get a "fat", full sound. It's a great amp (miked) for guitar or lap-steel, it just falls on it's face for pedal steel due to the lack of tone controls and low wattage. When you have both those factors working against you, there just ain't much left!

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 29 Aug 2005 4:25 pm

Hijack attempt...Donny, I 've seen and heard it several times but what exactly is "scooping" the mids? Does this mean turning the mid knob down to increase the difference between treble and bass or does it mean to turn the mid up to get more, well, mid-i?

Okay, you got the controls back.

Tom Jordan[This message was edited by Tom Jordan on 29 August 2005 at 05:27 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 29 Aug 2005 4:39 pm

"I've yet to see a big Fender Tube amp that didn't hiss! It's a characteristic of the high-gain tube stages in most of the bigger amps"

Fender tube amps are LOW gain, with only 1 1/2 or 2 gain stages, as opposed to 4-6 gain stages of Mesas, Soldanos and other high-gain amps.

A hissing Fender amp simply has lousy tubes or needs service. Minee, from tweeds to silverface amps, are very quiet until you hit 'em with a signal.

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 29 Aug 2005 5:42 pm

I use Fender Custom Vibrolux and '65 reissue Deluxe. Used to have a '65 Twin before I did a stupid thing and sold it. I like them all. No reliability issues. IMHO, they're more reliable than the hard-wired black/blue face models.

I don't recommend the Custom Vibrolux for pedal steel. Like Donny said, no mids on the Vibrolux, and I'm partial to 12s for pedal steel.

Charlie (will buy another Twin PDQ)

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 29 Aug 2005 6:30 pm

In the mid-powered range, a Silverface Pro Reverb would be good. My favorite is the '64 Custom Vibroverb - but it's pricey. Hand-wired, 40 or 60 watts (depending on the rectifier switch) and 1x15.

I've never cared for the Custom Vibrolux Reverb for guitar. I can't even fathom using one for steel. It's not a reissue of the old Vibrolux Reverb (which had very early breakup), but is Fender's attempt at a cross between modern and classic amps. IMO it has the best of neither....[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 29 August 2005 at 07:33 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 29 Aug 2005 7:15 pm

I strongly prefer the older hand-wired Fender amps. I still consider the nice Silverface amps a bargain. If this is for lap/table steel, I think a SF Deluxe Reverb is great, and I still see them between $600-800. I'll stack up the 20-watt Deluxe with any 65-watt solid-state amp any time. Tube watts seem louder, because one can push the amp harder without it becoming obnoxious-sounding, to my ears. They may need some service, especially filter capacitors and tubes, but even then, they generally come in under a grand.

The SF Pro (around 45 watts for an early version and 65 watts for the later 70s ultralinear version) is a great intermediate-volume, somewhat cleaner-sounding amp, and the SF Twin or Dual Showman Reverbs or SuperTwins are great for pedal steel clean. IMO, there's no comparison 'apparent-volume-wise' between a SF Pro and a Peavey Bandit, nothing against the Bandit. Ironically, a SF Pro or Twin Reverb doesn't usually cost that much (if any) more than a SF Deluxe, because guitar players like distortion so much, and it's easier to crank up a Deluxe without getting the band fired.

I dunno - I've tried a lot of the newer Fender PC-board amps - they sound OK, and like Fenders, but to my ears, most have been 'brittle' sounding. The handwired Fender custom shop amps have been nicer, to my ears, but in many cases, I could go out and find a nice old Blackface amp for the same $$$. Yes, they're new amps, but there's something about those old amps, IMO. Silverface Fenders are still the best bargain in used tube amps, but they have been creeping up rapidly the last several years. If past is prologue, then they should make good investments if bought and kept in excellent condition.

I agree with Jim - if an old Fender amp is tweaked out, I haven't had too much problem with hiss. Yes, there is always some noise, and that first preamp tube, whose noise is amplified by successive preamp tubes, is the largest determinant. But frankly, in my experience, I find that solid-state amps often have more 'quiescent' noise, the noise without any input signal present, than an old Fender with a good front preamp tube.

Tom, 'scooping' the mids simply means lowering the amplitude of midrange frequencies with respect to the bass and treble amplitudes. Think of a smiley face on a graphic eq.

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 29 Aug 2005 7:29 pm

Dave,

Thanks, you're the man. Here I thought I was only setting the mid low enough on the dial to just hear it a bit...didn't know I was scoopin'! Too cool.

Tom Jordan

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 31 Aug 2005 4:49 am

Tom, we like to "scoop" out the mids because most everything's weighted towards mids in the sound chain. Steel guitars favor the midrange, your speaker favors the midrange, and lastly, your ear is also weighted (most efficient) in the mid-ranges. With all those things favoring the mid ranges, we use the mid control to lower them back where they belong, and not be as prominent in the overall sound.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 31 August 2005 at 05:50 AM.]