Ultimate set-up

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 24 Aug 2005 5:26 am

Okay guys ... give it to me straight.

I have been playing the same old MSA guitar and Peavey amp for over 25 years, and I need some inspiration.

What is the "ultimate amp and guitar set-up"

Of course, I can't spend $20,000 to get this gear, but if just getting the best damn sound possible was the objective, what would you recommend?

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 24 Aug 2005 6:28 am

Jim, it will come down to what you personally want to hear. Make your own decision.

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 24 Aug 2005 6:44 am

I absolutely agree Mike, but I was hoping to hear what some of our esteemed colleagues considered the "cream of the crop".

There are no "wrong answers", just opinions, and of course, they're all subject to interpertation.

I love my old MSA, and Peavey Vegas 400, but I'm sure there are guys that will think that isn't anywhere close to the "best sound" possible.

Just looking for opinions.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 24 Aug 2005 7:08 am

I will make a suggestion, for power, I like the VHT 2/90/2, it's two 90 watt tube amps in a two rack space.(a quartet of KT88s) Loud and about as clean as it gets. For a preamp, I like the old Alembic orange knob two channel model, I believe it is an F-2B. For verb, the Lexicon MPX-550 works pretty great for me. All this is gets AC from a Furman power conditioner, and goes out stereo to a Diezel 2x12 cabinet, or to a Bogner single 12 for smaller gigs. Both cabinets are loaded with the Celestion Classic 80 driver.

I am convinced at this point my gear is as good as it needs to be, now if I don't sound good, it's all my fault! The whole thing cost about 4 grand to put together, so you'd be way under your "budget". I'd say the VHT amp is probably the most critical part, gives you that singing rich tube sound, but stays clean, clean, clean. Built like a tank too, never has given me any trouble whatsoever.

Let me know if you have any questions about this gear, I'd be happy to share my experiences in the studio and onstage with it.

Gerald

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 24 Aug 2005 7:14 am

For the dollar - the ultimate setup IS an MSA (S12 lacquer body) and a Peavey Vegas 400 !

If you're looking to modernize your rig, get the Peavey Mod Kit for the Vegas. It takes that amp up to a whole new level (9.5/10 from about a 5/10). Change the strings on your MSA, put in a custom pickup. You'll have all the tone that you could ever need for under $150.

If you are in need of inspiration, its not the instrument and amp that will give that to you...ok, maybe for the first 10 minutes after it arrives via UPS from ebay ! I find inspiration comes from trying new styles. Try figuring out some 'turn of century' rag-time tunes (eg. Scott Joplin). While fairly primitive - I like figuring out the classic Christmas tunes played by big band with the big C6 chords. Even learning new scales is a source of inspiration. Doug Jernigan has a few wild-ass scales that he teaches. Just some thoughts to kybosh your G.A.S. !

My latest GAS purchase was a set of slightly used Roland v-drums. Never played drums before but Lov'em. Variety is the spice of life.[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 24 August 2005 at 08:28 AM.]

Bill Tauson · Post by **Bill Tauson** » 24 Aug 2005 7:18 am

The ultimate set up is the one that comes out the day after you buy your gear today! There's always something else I'd like to have.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 24 Aug 2005 7:35 am

If money were no object, I would get an MSA Millenium S12U, with a TrueTone single-coil pickup and a Bill Lawtence 912 humbucker that could be swapped as needed, and a Hilton volume pedal. Or if I wanted a lacquer finish, I'd get an Excell with a cherry stained body and natural neck; or maybe an old refinished Sho-Bud with a new John Coop changer and undercarriage. For an amp, I'd use what I have now, a Fender Super Twin Reverb in a head cabinet, with two JBL or Weber California 15s in closed-back reflex cabinets, or a single 15" Black Widow. Second choice would be a 300 watt Line 6 Vetta head, with a single 15" Black Widow in a separate cabinet. For a small, light, low volume amp, I'd have George Alessandro (amp tech for Eric Clapton) build me a 50 watt tube amp, with a neo-15, in one of his beautiful wood finish cabinets (http://www.alessandro-products.com/about.html). After that, I'd buy me Selmer soprano, tenor and baritone saxes. Then a Steinway grand. Then a bigger house to put it all in.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 24 August 2005 at 08:44 AM.]

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 24 Aug 2005 8:09 am

Now that's what I'm talkin' about ... not only have I gotten some great ideas, heck, I've never even heard of some of the gear that's been mentioned!!

I really enjoyed the comment that the best stuff comes out the day after you bought the stuff you've got (or something to that nature, I can't see the comment while I'm writing this).

Thanks guys! You've definitely made me smile, and I am learning a few things!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 24 Aug 2005 9:57 am

The ultimate setup for YOU is the one that YOU like the best. I lean toward older transistor amps and am partial to the original Session and LTD 400 amps and particularly the Standel Custom Guitar amps from the late 60s and 70s. I tend to use any combination of individual amp, or two in stereo. The matched pair of Standel Custom 15s is a particularly good choice. These amps tend to break up in a pleasant, tubelike manner, but if you want more tube character just use a tube preamp or add a Black Box to the guitar end of your signal chain.

Since I own the three best sounding 12 string pedal steels I've ever played (and don't really even play 10 string), any of them will do just fine.

I guess my favorite setup is what I'm using now, but my buddy Mark van Allen let me play through his StereoSteel setup at his studio and it was very nice. If I didn't have five amps, I might try one.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Aug 2005 10:00 am

Some of us have hit on a guitar or amp rig that we just stuck with, others experiment constantly. It's tough to realize you can never play every possible combintaion, and so have to do some informed guessing- I've found that for me factors like playability and feel, response and reliability are almost as important as tone, and way ahead of looks... but that's just me.
Over the years I've had a bunch of different guitars and amp/ rack rigs. I'm as happy as I've ever been right now with A Mullen RP D-10~Hilton Volume~Walker Stereo Steel System.
But who knows- the quest is highly personal and very subjective. Fun though!

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Aug 2005 10:03 am

Man, Larry, this is cracking me up. We appear to be chasing around posting right after each other all over today. Where are you having lunch? Maybe I'll just show up...

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 24 Aug 2005 11:15 am

Bennigan's on Gull Road
I'll keep a Guinness cold for you

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Fred Nolen · Post by **Fred Nolen** » 24 Aug 2005 11:35 am

Jim,

I'm not the cream...I think it's the clabber. If you're playing through a pot volume pedal, I would recommend trying a Hilton, great difference. Also, I recently bought a Rains SD10 Spirit and am just awfull tickled with the tone. Can't imagine a better sounding guitar and a competitive price as well. I've played an Emmons LL D10 for the last 10 years. Its a good guitar but I personally think the Rains sounds better. As another forumite put it, "tone is pretty subjective". Good luck.

Ol' Fred

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 24 Aug 2005 12:10 pm

Jim,

Here's what I use but if you ask again next month it could be different. I seem to change thing often but each time I think that's it ... something like the TrueTones or Blackbox appears.

Franklin D10
BJS Bar
Kyser picks
TrueTone Pickups
Jagwire Strings
Belden Cables
Hilton Volume Pedal
Steel Guitar Black Box
Peterson Tuner
Steel King Amp
PodXt (for effects only)
PODxt Midi control box(homemade)
Sm57 mic
Boss - RV3 (I use it instead of the PODxt at times)
CD-GT1 guitar trainer (great for looping or key changes)
Boss BR-1180CD Recorder (record what you practice and analyze it often)
IVL Steel Rider
Roland U-220 Synth
Eurorack UB502 Mixer

I also own a Nashville 400 amp, a Webb and a Evans custom 500 . They are used as spares, for jams or for playing stereo. I don't play out much but it's a great living room setup.

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 24 Aug 2005 12:16 pm

Just for the record, my MSA is a lacquer finish Universal 12 string, with a Bill Lawrence pick-up. I put in the pick-up sometime in the 1980's.

I can clearly see that I need to get a Hilton volume pedal though. I have had the same Goodrich pedal since 1979.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 24 Aug 2005 12:50 pm

If you want to keep it light weight and simple (as I do) try a Nashville 112 amp. There are lots of FX units. I mostly use delay,only. Mine happens to be a Lexicon 110 which is hard to beat for a clean, quiet sound. I have a Hilton volume pedal and an old Goodrich pot-type pedal. They are both good stuff.

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 24 Aug 2005 8:52 pm

MSA Millenium with TT pickups
Steel guitar black box
Standel 100UL15 amp.(modern reissue of the orig.)
Lexicon efx through the efx loop.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 24 Aug 2005 10:54 pm

Mid 1970s Sho-Bud Pro III and late 1970s Marshall 50 watt half stack with master volume.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 24 Aug 2005 11:06 pm

Well, at least now; my favorite setup is my Derby w/Geo.L.10-1 and my ’65 Re-Issue Twin Custom™ 15 and an old Ibanez AD-9 Analog Delay. But, my wife won't let me use it at home in the house, so; I have to play through my AMR~64 Recording~Mixer, Digi~Verb, AD-9 and Headphones¡

Should I stay or seek an alternative outlet?

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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 25 Aug 2005 3:58 am

Bakelite Rick through a tweed Deluxe.

Jim Hinton · Post by **Jim Hinton** » 25 Aug 2005 4:26 am

A lot of people seem to like the Nashville 112. How does it sound for recording?

I love the old Vegas 400, but it has a "hum" that is hard to kill in the studio.

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 25 Aug 2005 4:27 pm

I really do like the VHT 2/90/2. I've been using this with an Evans stereo pre and a TC Electronics Reverb into two open back Pacific Cabs with PV BW 15's. I think I'm working on about the 4th year with this and my Emmons.

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God Bless,
Steve Stallings

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 29 Aug 2005 6:44 am

I have a sinking feeling that I may have to replace that F-2B I have in the rack with one of Brad Sarno's Revelation Tube Preamps, that thing looks like something out of a steel guitar/tube amp junkie's dreams!! I can hardly wait to hear one of those things with a VHT amp.

Gerald