What's a Good Mike For Steel?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Jun 2002 9:45 pm

I use EVM speakers, and I want to mike them close for recording or to run into the PA on big gigs. I play pretty loud.

I'd like to get a pair of mikes for under $500. Any recommendations?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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John Hawkins · Post by **John Hawkins** » 3 Jun 2002 10:00 pm

b0b,

You might want to consider two Shure 57 's .

They are made to mike instruments . I have used one on each of my stereo speaker cabinets for a long time and they do a good job for a reasonable price . Rugged too !

John

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 3 Jun 2002 11:19 pm

b0b, you're not going to get much for $250 each, so I'd go with what John says, SM-57. You see these all the time right up on the speaker. Spend the rest of the money on a good Preamp.

Timmy Witt · Post by **Timmy Witt** » 4 Jun 2002 1:27 am

Can't beat a 57, I've also used akgc3000,
they work nice and you can find them used around 150-175. I know where a couple of shure BG4.1 are if you would be interested in them.

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Tim
1990 Lashley Legrande D10 8 & 4. Profex II, Blue Tube II, Nashville 400

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 4 Jun 2002 1:34 am

Shure 57s are good - as are Shure 58s and the Shure Beta series 57s,58s and the Beta 87s are real hi-fi but you need phantom power for those.The next step up in my mic cabinet would be the Sennheiser 421.New,they are around $400&change but I see them used all the time for $200-$250.That's what I use to mic a steel or guitar amp in my studio and they're "phat". BTW,that's what I used on Joaquin's amp on the "Murph" record.Actually any mic that sounds good on drums will sound good on an amp. -MJ-

John Hawkins · Post by **John Hawkins** » 4 Jun 2002 5:02 am

b0b ,

You may want to take a look at this link .I have ordered several items from this company and they have been very efficient with everything I have ordered so far . Their packaging really protects the items --usually double boxed on fragile items .

They have a sale on right now that puts SM57'S at about $ 80.00 each .Sounds as if I work for them but I don't .I just have been pleased how well they have handled the things I have ordered from them .

Here is the link : www.ZZounds.com

Hope this helps you some .

John

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 4 Jun 2002 5:34 am

SM-57's rock.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 4 Jun 2002 7:25 am

I have a russian Oktava ... I like it alot ... they have some at places like Musicians Friend... pretty inexpensive ... I quess its that ruble to dollar exchange

Heres a couple links

click here

or here
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 04 June 2002 at 08:42 AM.][This message was edited by b0b on 23 June 2002 at 01:57 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 4 Jun 2002 7:40 am

I did a recording session a while back, at a name brand studio; the engineer/producer set about ten different mics up in front of my amp, (looked like a Fender Vibrolux holding a press conference) and had his own private "shoot out", A-B ing them all and daring to compare... after all that trouble he ended up using a Shure 57 right in front of the grille, a little off center of the dome of the speaker...

it's a classic! [This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 04 June 2002 at 08:42 AM.]

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 4 Jun 2002 7:45 am

The SM-57 is one of the true wonders of the audio world. Plus you can drive nails with it....A lot of people like the older "Unidyne" versions better than the newer models. I have some of each but I have never done any AB testing so I can't comment on sonic differences.
Speaking of the Octavas, I had Robbie Springfield in the studio awhile back and he asked for a pair of small diaphragm condensers to mike his cabs with. So I used those and they worked great. I think I paid 250.00 for the pair. The word is that they can be inconsistent. Other good applications for me have been drum overheads and dobro. They can be a tad boomy on acoustic guitars, but with proper placement they are fine.
At the risk of revealing how lazy and stupid I really am, on most anything other than voice I don't fret so much about mic selection as a lot of folks. To me, the source (the player and the instrument) and the placement of whatever mike you go with are much more crucial elements to the final sound. I mean, you put up a 5000.00 mike on a guy with dead strings who can't sit still when he plays and, well........

Where's John Macy on all of this?

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 4 Jun 2002 9:36 am

Well although the SM57 is the standard tried and true electric guitar mic, I would personally choose something else for steel guitar. The SM57 is very peaky in the upper mids, like 4k to 8k. This makes electric guitars easy to cut thru a mix, however the SM57 lacks the body and warmth that the lower registers of steel guitar produce. Also the Oktavas that were recommended are great little condenser mics but not at the high sound pressure levels of loud steel amps, even with the mic's 10db pad. The Sennheiser 421 again is a very peaky bright mic originally designed for vocal intelligibility. Great mic though. If you can find one or two, the discontinued Sennheiser 409 is the greatest guitar amp mic. They've sort of re-released a similar mic called the 609. It's not quite the same but similar and quite good. We used to do mic and gear reviews for Recording magazine at my studio so I got to run a ton of mics thru the wringer. For steel and especially the 15" speaker factor, I think you want a more full bodied mic than the Sm57. So since the Sennheiser 409 is nearly impossible to find, I'd say go check out the Shure Beta 57A. It has similar characteristics as the classic SM57 but it uses a different magnet and has a fuller warmer smoother sound. Great on guitar amps and even vocals. It's a good all-purpose mic and easily falls in your budget at $140 each. You wont be dissapointed. It's the modern evolution of the 30+ year old SM57.

Brad Sarno
Angelfish Studios
St. Louis

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 4 Jun 2002 11:57 am

A bit off topic since b0b asked about close miking, but I've been thinking of trying a good condensor mic backed off a few feet from the amp. I realize that puts the room acoustics back into the picture, but I'm trying to find some way to get more of a 'live' sorta sound, not so much presence. I'm not real happy with the direct sound I've gotten with a Pro-Fex, the VS-1680 amp models, a Quadraverb GT, a POD, or any of several other things I've tried.

Maybe mix the ambient mic with a close mic like a 57 or something? Anybody tried something like that with good results?

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Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 4 Jun 2002 1:31 pm

SM-57.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 4 Jun 2002 4:45 pm

In Paris, of course, Tommy

.

I have tried about everything made, and carry a pretty nice collection with me in my rig, ranging from 57's to tube U47's. The preamp has a lot to do with the sound, too, making some cheap mics sound expensive, and some expensive mics sounding cheap...

The 57 is a pretty darn good choice for a lot of things, especially with a great preamp. I have actually cut some amazing vocals with it (and I have some great vocal mics to choose from).

For a long time, the 421 was my fave for steel, like Michael Johnson mentioned (and it's another nail driver).

Oh yeah, a brief affair with the 414's...

Then I got some ribbons, and fell in love with them (Both the Coles and the Royer, but mainly the Royer 121).

But, then I found a killer Sony C37A tube mic from the 60's, and it's the monster. Daniel Lanois uses it for all his electric guitars and also female vocals. So it's my current fave.

On the other hand, some of my favorite tones I have gotten personally have been direct off my rack mount Evans and Boogie pre's.

I do like getting the mic off the amp IF the room sounds good

.

So to answer b0b's question--$500, hmmm.

2 57's leaves enough change to take a nice weekend somewhere with the wife/girlfriend

.

2 421's used eats it all, but you gotta couple real versatile mics.

There are some new mics on the market, mostly Chinese that are sometimes spoken well of. Also, Shure has a new baby brother to the KSM32/44 family (which by the way are reaaal nice) in the $500/pair vicinity if your looking for a quality larger diaphram condensor.

(57's and a weekend are sounding mighty appealing at the moment--I've been buried in mixes for a loong time

.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 4 Jun 2002 5:47 pm

There's a good picture out there of Lloyd Green in about 1972 in the studio with his Fender amp and a Neumann U87 about a foot off the speaker. Today's affordable version of that mic is the Neumann TLM-103. For about $650 you can have that excellent Neumann sound. Great all around mic for recording just about anything.

Brad Sarno

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 4 Jun 2002 7:27 pm

A BAD Mike on use on steel,is a WEIRAUCH Mike. (or is that a Mike Weirauch?)

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Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 4 Jun 2002 8:26 pm

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

......Smiley, I have MORE pictures!!!

David Spires · Post by **David Spires** » 5 Jun 2002 7:42 am

Hey b0b,

I give another vote for the SM-57 route. That is what I use in my project studio. I do know that Paul was using Sennheiser 421's on his cabinets in the studio (at least at some time), and they are a dynamic mic that would be easy to use live. I believe they are around $250 a piece.

I would steer clear of a condensor for live use myself, but if money is not an object - I love my rig with AKG C 414's ($700 each).

By the way, it's nice to know that someone else out there likes to play loud too!

David Spires

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 5 Jun 2002 9:58 am

I'll go with the 57's also. I have an AKG 414 I use at home but I wouldn't bring it to gigs.

In studios I have had good luck with the 421's if I can play my amp real loud. The Neumans and ribbon mikes can be fantastic. I use them backed off the cab quite a bit if the room is nice. They cost alot of money though. For my own music project I used a dozen geffels scattered all over a big church into a Sonic Solutions system. Heck of a sound but not even remotely practical.

I checked with a sound guy last night about all the new Sure 57/58 variations and he said the 57 is still the one.

Bob

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 5 Jun 2002 10:42 am

Remember that when close miking a guitar speaker it's very important to spend time experimenting to see what part of the speaker sounds best miked. Sometimes for cut, you'll want to point the mic right at the metal dustcap in the center of the speaker. For warmth move toward the edge of the cone. You'll probably find that a spot halfway between the center and the edge of the cone sounds most balanced. This goes for miking any kind of guitar speaker.

Brad Sarno

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Jun 2002 7:03 pm

I like the Shure "Beta 57A". Warm sound, high output N-D super-cardioid. Never a feedback problem, and it handles extremely high levels, important for close miking.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 6 Jun 2002 6:18 am

For recording, I use either an AKG414 or the Royer 121. I think the AKG sounds coupled with the EVs makes a great recording combo.
For recording I would use some kind of condenser mic because i think it sounds better for steel. The 57s work great for regular guitar and for live amp micing.
If you want pairs and want to have both situations covered, you might want to consider 2 SM57s for live, at $79 each, and 2 Oktava MC012's at $149 each(sometimes Guitar Center has a sale of two for $200). The Oktava mics sound surprisingly good for the money. That would keep you under $500.

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 6 Jun 2002 6:29 am

SM57,421 Beyer M88 or Beyer MC420, it's a drum mic, but it's small, sounds good and sometimes you can find them real cheap. I got a pair at a music store for $100 each. You might try some of the Peavey dynamic mics too, as they can be found for a decent price and will compare well with a 57.[This message was edited by Jerry Erickson on 08 June 2002 at 11:37 AM.]

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Jun 2002 12:34 pm

A SM57 or SM58 are ideal for live use. They can handle the high volumes, and the extra dynamic range of the PSG would still be covered in my oppinion. Beyond not wanting to trash a $500 LD condensor or Ribbon Mic.(bad idea for a stage), I think a 57 or 58 will work better on a loud stage.

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 6 Jun 2002 6:31 pm

I'd have to say that a good mike for steel would be Mike Johnson.

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Lee, from South Texas