My Next Steel Accesory Purchase--Please Help

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 3 May 2005 10:15 pm

When it comes to 6 string electrics, FX and amps, I'm pretty savvy, but going for great steel tone is another matter. Disclaimer: I DO understand how much tone is in the hands of the player, but I want to make some improvements to my steel rig and I'm not sure where to begin, so here's my current modest setup:

Sho Bud 12, George L's pickup> stock Sho Bud volume pedal> Genesis 3 modeler> Mosvalve 962>15" speaker cab.

Here is my problem: I haven't hit upon any setting where I feel I have the right blend of treble, mids and bass. Either there's too much treble, or too much bass or not enough mids. I use minimal effects (a little echo and a little verb). Sometimes I think this pickup isn't right. I want more string separation. I just can't get the balance and its driving me nuts.

I know a part of it is my playing technique, but I vary my touch in experiments and I still don't get what I'd call a good balance of tones. I've gone from picking very soft to hard and in between. I haven't found "the" tone in any of these experiments.

I've been scrounging around using the search function, reading reports on many of the things I'm going to mention. I want to add or replace one item at this time. Here is what I'm considering:

1. Hilton pedal. Why? Because it removes the capacitance tone changing from low to high volume. Seems like a good possibility.

2. Brad's "Black Box" . Rave reviews. But will it address my specific problem?

3. I have a line on a TubeFex as a preamp. Good idea or another can of worms?

4. Chuck it all and get a bona fide steel amp? Ah, but a solid state Peavey or Fender? Or go tubes a la Twin?

5. Try another pickup--a True Tone, Bill Lawrence or another george L's model, maybe an E 66.

I'm Really interested in all responses, whether they are for one product or another or simply "refine your technique." But even the best players out there have some tone shaping tools that help them get their sound. If you were me--knowing what you have been through--what would you do next?

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 4 May 2005 3:52 am

If it was me I would start with the amp. The PV will give you more midrange and the open back cabinet will cut down on the bass response. A Nashville would be a great place to start, there are plenty available here on the forum.

Then you can get a TT, a Hilton and a BB. All of these make a POSITIVE difference.

Do you play out or just at home?

Larry Behm

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 4 May 2005 5:04 am

Get a NV112,or at least try one out. I had tried several different guitar amps, but when I plugged into the NV112, my steel finally sounded like a steel,no other effects, GFI keyless ultra thru a passive volume pedal,using the 3 cord method, amp reverb. JP

Tim Bridges · Post by **Tim Bridges** » 4 May 2005 5:36 am

Al, I recently changed from a steel amp to a rack mount system. I couldn't be happier! My set up is a bit unconventional in that I didn't go for max power. I'm using a Blue Tube II preamp (w/ steel mod), Lexicon MPX 110 through the effects loop on the BT II, into a Crown XLS 202 power amp. Now, I only have 145 watts/channel at 8 ohms. I'm driving 2 15" E130-8 JBL's in two cabinets. I have more power than I'll ever need and the sound (TONE) is much better than I had before. It all fits in a 4 space rack and is easy to haul around. Alot of help was provided by numerous fo' bros', in particular, Erv. Take your time before you pull the trigger. It took me 6 months to finally resign myself to what I wanted to do. I did go against some traditional things, like power. I mainly wanted adequate power with a low THD factor and match up all the other components. For now, this is it...in 6 months, I might be on another quest. I hope not!!!

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 4 May 2005 5:47 am

Nashville 112 amp is a great start. Then a good "delay" unit. I like my Lexicon MPX 110,rack unit. There are also some suitable stompbox delays.

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 4 May 2005 6:21 am

as Brad Sarno showed me you can hold down the warp knob on the Genesis to select your frequency ranges for lo, mid, and hi, using knobs P2, P3, and P4, then boost or cut, I guess this is essentially a parametric eq, all I use is a Genesis and it works well for me

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 May 2005 6:30 am

Al,
I second Tim Bridges motion. I also play through a rack setup with the Blue Tube II preamp. Your Tube Works 962 amp is plenty fine for what you're wanting. I also like to run everything in stereo. It can really add to your delay and chorus effects. So you might look at adding another speaker cab.
Erv

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 May 2005 6:34 am

I'd chuck it all and buy a GD Walker Stereo Steel amp.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 4 May 2005 9:24 am

I notice you define your problem as wanting more string seperation.
Do you have the same complaint when you pick single strings?
I wonder if your playing technique isn't in fact contributing to the problem.
If you constantly group 3 strings together, it's hard to get a good "clear" sound, no matter what your setup.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 4 May 2005 11:31 am

My two cents...
I think you've got way too many toys in the chain.
Get a Peavey steel amp that does the three cord trick, you can then keep your passive volume pedal, no need for a Hilton.
Change the GeorgeL pickup for a single-coil.
I will allow you one toy: a delay pedal, to come after your volume pedal in the signal chain.
R B

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 4 May 2005 11:38 am

Al, please feel free to contact me here at Peavey Electronics if you wish to "talk" steel amps. My number is 1-877-732-8391, extension 1180. I look forward to speaking with you.

Mike Brown
Consumer Information Service

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 May 2005 12:40 pm

The 1st link in the chain I see missing is the Black Box,
especially going into a pot pedal like you are.
IT would adress most of your initial tone complaints.

Next a Hilton certainaly is a great choice.

But before you change volume you need great and consistant tone from the pickup you have.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 May 2005 12:45 pm

I think your problem is that "modelers" (designed for straight guitar) really don't give you much in the way of "tone shaping". With only "Low-Mid-High", there's only so much you can do. A shift control will work wonders, and a graphic EQ is even better.

Give a good steel amp a try. You might be surprised!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 4 May 2005 12:52 pm

Get a Truetone pickup rewind and a JBL speaker and you should have all the string separation you want.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 4 May 2005 1:11 pm

Get a Truetone or Lollar single coil pup, and a black box. That's what worked for me, at least.

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 4 May 2005 2:05 pm

Thanks for all the responses. The overwhelming favorite answer is to get a real steel amp, followed by getting a True T one pickup. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on both. The Nashville 112 has had so many glowing reviews and is played by so many pro's that it seems like a no brainer. Likewise, the True Tone pickups seem to please about 95% of the people who have tried them on the forum.

From there I can add a non pot pedal and a black box if needed, but my feeling is that if I can't get what I want from the Nashville 112 and the True Tone Tone, then its time for me to stop blaming my equipment and look into my technique.

I appreciate all the other replies too. The rack systems are probably great if you have the right combinations, but guitar to amp seems so straightforward and proven that I have to go with the conventional wisdom.

The only reply I didn't totally "get" was Richard Burton saying I had too many toys in the signal chain. Its now basically guitar to pedal to preamp to power amp. I can't remove any of those. Anyway, the rest of his post was 100% in agreement with the majority, so it looks like his advice was solid. Thanks Richard.

And thanks everybody. Now, I have a few calls to make!