Inexpensive" Volume Pedals

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 23 Nov 2004 6:12 pm

http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-YAM-FC7.html
http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-BEH-FCV100.html

I was looking at these two volume pedals in particular. It looks like you can put two guitars into the Behringer (which might serve my A/B/Y box purpose, possibly???)...

I have a Goodrich L-120, and am perfectly happy with it; but, I'd like to have another pedal to use with another steel upstairs (okay, call it laziness...but it seems like when I'm upstairs, the volume pedal is always downstairs, and vice versa

)!

Are there any drawbacks in using these types of pedals for a non-pedal steel? For $25 bucks for the Behringer, as long as it does the job, it seems like a good deal.

I know very little about electronics, so what's the main difference in these types of pedals, compared to the high end ones like Goodrich or Hilton (i.e, I need a Volume Pedals for Dummies answer

)?

Thanks!

[This message was edited by Jeff Strouse on 23 November 2004 at 06:15 PM.]

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 23 Nov 2004 6:45 pm

If you feel fine about supporting a company that makes its profits by stealing other people's designs and then building the same stuff in China out of the cheapest materials possible then go for it.

Behringer has been successfully sued by a number of industry leaders (Mackie, Aphex and Tannoy to name a few) for ripping off their R&D work, but they are making so much money at it that they just pay the fines and forge ahead. It only works because so many people are only interested in getting things cheap.

Do I have a problem with this? You bet, and so should anyone who cares about doing the right thing!

My apologies if I have offended anyone, I didn't expect this ugly facet of the industry to pop its little head up here on the forum.

If you need something inexpensive there are plenty of used units out there, I even have an extra one if it comes to that.

Best -- Dave

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 23 Nov 2004 11:29 pm

Jeff,
I have a couple of the Yamaha pedals that I use for digital keyboard volume controllers.
There are no 'in' and 'out' jacks on this pedal.
There is a 'hardwired' (non-detachable) cable that comes from the pedal with a stereo plug on it.
The cable goes to the keyboard (with the 'ring and tip' of the stereo plug being used as the 'in and out'), while the output of the keyboard goes directly to the amp. The pot is not as 'heavy-duty' as usual 'steel-volume-pedal' pots, and it is but 50K Ohms rather than the usual 500K Ohms.
~Russ

Steve Howard · Post by **Steve Howard** » 24 Nov 2004 3:51 am

First off, Dave,

I am glad there are a couple other people in the world out there that feel like me. It seems like a losing battle most of the time, but when I read things like that it gives me hope.

Back to the topic,
I have an el cheapo that I got back before I knew any better and the problem with them is that out of the full range of motion, about 1/5 of it is where all the volume change is. Very sensitive in a 1/5 of the area, the rest is meaningless pedal motion.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 24 Nov 2004 7:58 am

I had an Ernie Ball pedal thrown in with a recent guitar purchase and I'm actually rather impressed with the quality of the pedal, reminds me of the old Sho~Bud free standing pedal. It is built like a tank! This must be an older model because the jacks are on the side like we want them for pedal steel.
Erv

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 24 Nov 2004 9:21 am

I played PSG with an EB pedal for a couple years. Good pedal, if you're standing up playing 6 string. For PSG the angle is wrong, at full volume the pedal is perfectly horizontal, the pivot is in the wrong place, plus the pedal is too high. The pedals designed for PSG are designed to be used when sitting so the angle and pivot are set properly. With the EB pedal, my right knee would start to hurt after a while, and I'm a young guy. I also have more control with my new pedal.

I assume the pedals you are looking at are designed with standing guitar players in mind. One more thing, if you buy ANYTHING Behringer, and it breaks, throw it away, they are nearly impossible to repair, you get what you pay for.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Nov 2004 10:28 am

IMHO, if you're playing steel, get a steel pedal!

Good used ones go for $75-$100, and I just figure it's better to spend $100 on something decent than to spend $25 on a piece of junk, really.

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 24 Nov 2004 10:59 am

Dave, I'm interested in learning more about the issues with Behringer. I'm assuming that when you say they're ripping off other company's designs, you mean that they're infringing on patents (that's the only thing I can think of, anyway). So, I'm assuming that what you're talking about is that the other companies you mentioned have won patent infringement cases against Behringer.

I'm also very curious about something else you said. You said

they just pay the fines and forge ahead

I somewhat baffled by this if it's true. The reason being that whenever there is enough evidence to win a patent infringement case, then there's certainly enough evidence to obtain an injunction at the very beginning which literally stops all sales, movement, and production of the infringing goods. When the infringement suit is won, the infringing goods are destroyed (or whatever the winning party wants to do with them).

Also, the loser doesn't simply pay a fine. The loser pays 3 times whatever profit they made from selling the infringing goods. It doesn't take much to figure out that if a company pays three times it's profits whenever it loses an infringment action, then it's either not going to be in business very long, or it's going to stop infringing mighty quick.

Like I say, I'm interested in finding out more. Can you give me any websites or any sources that might have more information on this subject? Thanks.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 24 Nov 2004 11:13 am

Or you might consider this:
http://www.steelguitar.com/accessor/accedesc.htm#VolPed

------------------
John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars

www.steelguitar.com
www.steelguitarinfo.com
www.carterstarter.com

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 24 Nov 2004 2:49 pm

Tom,

My bad, "fines" was an incorrect term, "settlement" would be the corrrect one. Here is a list of posts that include comments from both sides that might provide more information for you:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=636193&postcount=37
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=behringer+lawsuit&start=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&selm=37AF0B9A.768C%40txdirect.net&rnum=12

Here's a quote concerning Behringer's business practices from the Sweetwater Sound website: (http://insync.sweetwater.com/archive-may97.html)

" Marvin Caesar, President of Aphex Systems, paid us a visit here at Sweetwater Sound recently. If you ever have an opportunity to hear the man speak on compressors, gates, limiters, and exciters, jump at the chance - he truly is an authority on the topic! In addition to enlightening us on processing, Marvin also gave us the scoop on his lawsuit with Behringer. As you are probably aware, Uli Behringer proudly makes direct copies of successful products, and sells them under his Behringer brand (How direct? Compare a Mackie 8 bus to a Behringer...this is one of the reasons Sweetwater no longer carries Behringer products.)
We're happy to say that Aphex has won their lawsuit, we'll keep you informed as to the progress of other manufacturer's pending suits against Behringer..."
----------------------------
Note that Aphex won that lawsuit, which means Behringer was found guilty of stealing their competitors product designs. No information is publicly available on what the penalty was.

For information on the Mackie/Behringer lawsuit (which was eventually settled out of court) see THE MUSC TRADES of february 1999.

The only text that I could find quickly was this release:
Samson/Behringer Motion To Dismiss Denied.
Case to proceed to Trial.
Judge determines jurisdiction over key defendants in Mackie lawsuit.

WOODINVILLE, WA. - February 6, 1998 - Mackie Designs Inc. (Nasdaq:MKIE) today made the following announcement: On Friday, January 30, 1998 the US District Court for the Western District of Washington ruled that Mackie’s case against Behringer Spezielle Studio-Technick Gmbh, Ulrich Bernard Behringer and Samson Technologies Corporation would proceed in Seattle. The
same court said that Mackie should bring its case against Sam Ash Music Corporation, Richard Ash and Scott Goodman in a different court, which Mackie intends to do.
The litigation, until now tied up in procedural matters, will now proceed to substance.

In the open court hearing, Samson, Behringer and the other defendants admitted that Mackie’s design patent was valid and that they had stopped selling Mackie patented products after the lawsuit was filed. The court therefore removed the patent claims from the lawsuit on the basis that it was no longer the subject of dispute.

The complaint for trademark and trade dress infringement, dilution, copyright infringement, breach of contract, unfair competition and joint venture will proceed as claimed in the United States District Court for the Western District of Washington at Seattle.
...and it goes on and on ad nauseum. I will continue to stand by my conclusions and ethical beliefs.

Best --

Dave

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Nov 2004 5:33 pm

I'd be willing to bet that the U.S. Customs Service pays much more attention counterfeit Coach purses, Nike shoes, and Rolex watches than they do to relatively small runs of illegal electronic gear. They'd probably concentrate on the big offenders (thousands of items), while a few skids of illegal volume pedals or studio gear slid right on by.

Sadly, our myriad laws and protective regulations are pretty meaningless in most foreign countries.

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 24 Nov 2004 7:39 pm

Dave, I hope you drive an American made car. Is Behringer an American company? Can you still get a good American made television or camera? What if someone copies someone else's style of playing, singing, or dancing? Harley-Davidson is worried about other companies copying their sound. Is it ok to like bluegrass bands from Russia? Do you pay BMG or some other orginization for all the music you use. Does that include midi's? Do you fill out your income taxes correctly and give 10 percent of your income to a church? Do you buy any drugs from Canada?
All this being said, I don't believe it is right to steal other peoples patents, copyrights, etc. but some people do go overboard about this stuff.
Let he who has never copied a CD or Lp, fought chickens, played poker, or shot too many deer cast the first stone.

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 24 Nov 2004 7:56 pm

I just read where someone was installing a Weber copy of a JBL in an amp. Weber makes a lot of retro copies of other brands of speakers, but at least the patents are up.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 25 Nov 2004 4:33 am

Please be careful to keep political comments off this Forum. They are not allowed.

The info on Beheringer is relavent to Electronics.
I didn't know about the lawsuits. I own one of their small mixers, use it for headphone practice. I thought it was a priced way low, now I know why.