How to add tube "bite" without a tube amp...

Brandon Housewright · Post by **Brandon Housewright** » 8 Jun 2004 9:08 am

I just discovered that I want to add some tube bite to make my tone more "Mooneyish" like on Waylon's albums. If you guys could offer me some pedal or effect suggestions, I could surely use them. Here's what I play now:

Mullen Royal Precision w/ stock pickup
Basic Goodrich volume pedal
Peavey NV1000 amp

Thanks and let me know

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 8 Jun 2004 10:29 am

Let me refer you to this page.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bradsarno/blackbox.html

I bet this might do what you're looking for.

Brad Sarno

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Jun 2004 11:58 am

I see you are using a Peavey 1000 amp. If I were you, I'd look around for a Peavey "Tube Sweetener". They add a tube sound to a solid state amp.
Erv

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 8 Jun 2004 12:10 pm

The profexII with the steel presets has a "mooney" preset.
When I worked with Ralph 1960 BW (before waylon), he was using a fender 1000 guitar and a fender showman amp. I even saw him borrow a magnatone amp to use on a session because he wanted a "dead" sound.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 8 Jun 2004 12:11 pm

A tube screamer type stomp box just might give you what you are looking for. In this case I'm not thinking of a "sweetening" effect but rather a bite and an edge. "Tube Screamer" is a sort of generic category for a certain type of distortion/overdrive unit. I use a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive--its advantage over standard tube screamers is the ability to mix back in your clean signal so that you can really dial in just the slightest bit of grind. For the Mooney bite, I'm talking about using the box at the barest minimum of distortion. It tends to add a bit of treble and to give that sound of clean tube amp just slightly pushed too far.
I have to admit, though, that I run it into a Fender tube amp so I'm already one leg up on the tube thing.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 8 Jun 2004 1:21 pm

Try a compressor, I think it is just the thing you are looking for!

David Higginbotham · Post by **David Higginbotham** » 8 Jun 2004 3:38 pm

What Ken said! Either thru the effects such as a profex-2 or something like Digitech Main Squeeze. It adds that extra "bite." Boss also makes a good compressor I think it is CS-1?
Dave

------------------
'74 MSA D-10 8&4 W/705's, Rocktron Short Timer, Profex II, Boss GX-700, Nashville 400

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 8 Jun 2004 9:54 pm

Whenever I want to emulate Moon, I put my right hand *way*, *way* back towards the right of the guitar (right against the changer). And pick the h*&^ out of it (really hard). It sounds pretty close no matter what amp I am using.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 9 Jun 2004 1:02 am

I compressor would be a good add.

I would recommend getting any one of the brand name stomp box compressors but would make sure it has LEVEL, ATTACK and SUSTAIN.
I bought an Ibanez CP5 at a Pawn Shop for $25..It is basically brand new. They were asking $39 and I offered $25..What a great Country.

t

Jerry Clardy · Post by **Jerry Clardy** » 9 Jun 2004 1:22 am

When we took the school with Jeff Newman, he said Moon used over compression in the studio to get the sound. Of course that would have to be added to the rest of the equipment used as well as his technique and mindset to really get the sound. But a compressor stomp box may provide a good part of what you're looking for.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 9 Jun 2004 4:02 am

When I was at Jeff's school, he referred to the compressor as a "Mooney Machine". I had an old MXR compressor and I played with getting that "Chicken Pickin" sound. You have to basically overdrive the compressor so that it is clipping. The opening and closing of the gate is what gives that sound. Also, playing back against the bridge helps too.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 9 Jun 2004 4:51 am

The comment about "the right hand" hit it right on the head(or should I say hand).
In the early sixties,when Ralph was doing the Buck Owens sessions (and everyone else on the west coast), I had the opportunity to work some jobs and sessions with him.
I sat in for him on his steel several times and I sounded like me. When Ralph played it, he sounded like Ralph. The only way I could come close to his sound was by changing my right hand technique.
We didn't know what a compressor was. We did it all with technique.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 9 Jun 2004 6:27 am

I use the Boss compressor and have had grat results with it for years. For many years I played Tele thru an LTD400. I had a lot of palyers ask what kind of tube amp I was playing thru!

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 9 Jun 2004 7:35 am

The best stompbox compressor we've found is the Compulator by Jim Demeter. Check 'em out at www.demeteramps.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Jun 2004 7:40 am

I'm with Dan on this one!

The "bite" doesn't come from a box (or tubes), it comes from right-hand technique.

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 9 Jun 2004 10:13 pm

If you want the "Mooney sound", get a tube amp and a Fender pedal guitar. If you want some half a$$ed, almost "Mooney sound" from your guitar.......You don't "really" want that sound. For the price of some dorky box, you can buy a Fender pedal guitar and hear the difference yourself. Mullen are great guitars, but...they can't get that Fender sound!! I've had plenty of steel guitars over the last 20 years, but I now only have a Fender 400 because that sound is what I love.

Pat

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 10 Jun 2004 3:59 am

Patrick I agree with you, I never heard another guitar sound like a ZB, or the hollowness of a Shobud or the midrange of a PP, or the highs of a Fender or a Frypan. The player and the hands etc are a big factor but the brand also plays a part as does the amp.

Larry Behm

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 10 Jun 2004 5:04 am

I love the Fender 1000 sound Mooney got on the old Buck Owens/Wynn Stewart/Warren Smith records, but Brandin's question was about the Mooney sound on the Waylon recordings. I think by then Moon had switched to a modern guitar (not sure which brand). Still has that distinctive sound, with lots of "bite", so I have to think it really is more in his picking technique. He also had some unusual copedants that allowed him to play his signature licks.

BTW, I play a Fender 1000 and unfortunately the Mooney sound is not a built in feature.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 10 Jun 2004 9:44 am

Ralph plays a GFI....... but he would sound the same on any guitar.

Brandon Housewright · Post by **Brandon Housewright** » 10 Jun 2004 10:27 am

Thanks for all the input, guys...you're the best

Glenn Porter · Post by **Glenn Porter** » 11 Jun 2004 7:58 pm

Any feedback on the Demeter
STDB-1 Stereo Tube Direct Box
Check it out http://www.demeteramps.com
then click on Pro Audio
GP

kbdrost · Post by **kbdrost** » 12 Jun 2004 8:11 pm

You don't say what year your Mullen is, but if it has humbucker pickups, get yourself a Sarno Black Box. I have a Sho-Bud Super Pro with Tru-Tone single coil pickups that I play through a '66 Fender Twin with JBL speakers. It is the holy grail of tone, IMHO, and the Black Box doesn't help it a bit. I also have an MSA with George L E-66's that I play through a NV 1000. I have never been able to get a decent tone through it until I ran it through the Black Box. The Box provides a warm sustaining sort of tone that you can't get through a solid state amp, no matter what kind or delay or chorus effects you use.

------------------
Ken Drost
steelcrazy after all these years