Naive amplification question

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Jun 2004 7:28 pm

At peril of sounding as dumb as I really am about amplification, I want to ask y'all the following:

Since companies like Bose can put out these stereo systems that have a single, fairly small, subwoofer accompanied by maybe 4 or 5 little (and I mean TINY) square box speakers (tweeters, I suppose) perched up on little stands, and they sound great in reproducing full range stereo at pretty good volumes... why can't something like that be used for live steel guitar (or guitar, or piano, etc.)? After all, they reproduce the sounds of steel, piano, guitar, etc. when playing back CDs, etc. Why not for live situations? Just not enough power or what?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Jun 2004 10:26 pm

Those surround sound systems sound great at living room volumes, but have you ever turned one up to the sound level that you usually hear on stage? I tried it on mine, and it sounded just like little speaker boxes on the wall.

Bose has recently come out with a performing sound system. It's a radical concept - a pole that radiates sound in all directions plus a subwoofer box. They hype it a lot on their web site, and it's featured in the summer Musician's Friend catalog.

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Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 5 Jun 2004 4:36 am

JC;
Click Here!

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Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Jun 2004 4:47 am

Ah, yes, now I remember reading about this a few months ago. Anybody heard one of these yet? It's unclear from the website how many of these poles you need to buy. One place says one pole per musician! That's costly, if true...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Jun 2004 11:40 am

Sound is a lot like water. A garden hose would soak your living room pretty well in just a few minutes, but that same hose would take hours and hours to barely wet a quarter-acre lawn.

Small speakers = small sound

...unless you're close to the speakers.

A speaker system that literally blows you away at home would be pretty anemic on a stage in a moderate sized venue. Sound intensity follows the "inverse square" principle, so being twice as far away from the speakers means the sound is now one-fourth it's previous intensity. In our homes, or in a very small venue, you might never get more than fifteen to twenty feet from a speaker. In the real world, a moderate-sized venue often puts the listener at four to six times that distance, and for the sound to be full, the speakers must be big. Oh sure, small speakers might work, if you had a hundred of them, strategically placed!

A speaker is nothing but an air pump, and to cover large areas effectively, you have to move a lot of air.

Hence, the need for those "big pumps".

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Jun 2004 12:02 pm

Well, that's pretty clear, Donny. Thanks. Now... what do you think of the new Bose system? Does it sound "impossible" based on what you've just described?

Miguel e Smith · Post by **Miguel e Smith** » 5 Jun 2004 3:45 pm

Hey Jim,

I recently got to hear the new Bose PA system live (I had heard it in an in-store demo several times) and it worked well for what they were doing...smooth jazz trio (2 acoustic guitars & percussion) playing poolside at one of the upscale resorts locally. Sounded good, but the overall levels were very low. Although Bose has made some statements about this system carrying crowd sizes of even 700, I just don't see it. It is a pricey setup but I think it's great for small venues.

I was actually excited about the possibility that this might remedy me schlepping a larger PA setup around, but...no, won't work for us.

Mike

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 6 Jun 2004 6:28 am

I believe it would be VERY expensive, as I gathered that each player does needed his own pole.

That way if the lead player is too loud, he'll be too loud everywhere in the room. Figures...

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Ernie

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Jun 2004 7:32 am

Honestly Jim, I haven't heard the Bose system in question. I have heard similar designs, and they've failed to impress me. Bose makes great stuff, and they're famous for getting a big sound from a small package. I have a factory installed Bose system in my car, with 8 speakers, a 12" subwoofer, and 425 watts. It sounds great. But it won't do what my 260-watt Technics home stereo system with four 12" speakers will do!

I think that this gear might be good for a large quiet venue, like a church, or a small coffee-house type place. But if it's a sizeable interior space with high ambient noise levels, or a large outdoor space, I would seriously doubt it's capabilities. Impossible? Well, I'd never say that without hearing it myself, but the 360-degree radiation pattern, bothers me (for most venues). One of the nice things about a normal speaker is that you can point it where you want the sound to go, be it at your own ear, at the audience, or at the drummer

. With a 360-degree radiator, you can no longer "point" the thing. You have to control the sound intensity by either volume or placement.

Personally, I consider that a shortcoming. (Your mileage may vary.)

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Jun 2004 9:25 am

One thing about Dr. Boze he is a genious at making small speakers MUCH louder than anyone else.
He uses physics and acoustic science to create interactive ports in small packages that significantly increase the air flow created by the small speakers.
And it's not the size that matters, but how much air is moved,
and how ACCURATELY it is moved.
Smaller drivers are more accurate than big ones.

His work moves air very efficiantly.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 June 2004 at 10:27 AM.]

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 6 Jun 2004 9:44 am

Bose dose make very good stuff but aftering visting a "Bose" outlet here in "Nashville", I find it exceeding hard to lay out $500.00 or more for a radio that I was wanting to place in the kitchen/dinning room. This equipment is ment for folks with serious money to spend on "Home theater systems" and such. I dought that it will ever be useful to the local bands or outfits that need to push a bit of sound. Way too expensive for my blood.

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