Digital Guitar Tuners?

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 8 May 2004 9:41 pm

Hi Guys

Is there, or has there ever been a digital readout tuner that reads out in hertz like "436.5", "440.0", "442.5", etc? It would be nice to see the name of the note to. Did the older Korgs, MT-1200, AT-120 do this?

thx

bob

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 9 May 2004 5:39 am

Can you say "Korg DTR-1" ????

It will read out in cents,freq,and a couple of other modes.

Bob Knight has one for sale over in the B&S section. Well worth what he's asking for it. If I didn't already have one, I'd get it.

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Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 9 May 2004 6:02 am

Bill

I thought the Korg was a series of LED's? I need a digital "numeric" readout with a resolution to .5 hz

bob

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 9 May 2004 7:37 am

I doubt that's really what you want, since only one A note is 440. Other A's are 110, 220, 880, etc. I think it would take quite a while to learn all the exact frequencies of just the open notes available on a pedal steel, then there are harmonics, etc., etc.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 9 May 2004 7:55 am

Doesn't each note have a frequency? If A=440, then G#= 4XX?

bob

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 9 May 2004 8:07 am

Something like this in a stand alone:
http://www.phonature.com/home/products_pdaApp_palm_PhonTuner.htm

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 9 May 2004 10:25 am

Yes Bob,

Each note DOES have an exact frequency. In an A=440HZ system, each note is in relation to the A as Follows:

<pre>

A 440
A# 466.16
B 493.88
C 523.25
C# 554.37
D 587.33
D# 622.25
E 659.25
F 698.46
F# 739.99
G 783.99
G# 830.61
A 880
</pre>

The above is based on "straight up" tuning or ET. As you can see the numbers become quite ambiguous and difficult to work with for most musicians. Especially if you carry these numbers to the octave numbers above and below A at 440.

So when meters came out, rather than read the actual frequencies, it was decided to have a relative reading related to 440. Rather than to use the actual frequencies.

Thus, when we say E at 440, it REALLY means E at 659.25. But those of us who do not care for beats like E at 660 (JI), since 660 is an exact harmonic of 440. So we tune our E's about 3/4 of one cycle sharp of 659.25.

However trying to use these readouts require musicians to be more math oriented. So the tuner manufacturers again created a system easier to cope with. IE, rather than relating a horrible number like 659.25 to 660 (in the case of E) or 554.37 to 550 (in the case of C#) and so on, everything is related to 440 by the SAME amount of shift in ratio terms.

So when we tune A to 440 and then tune E to 440 (relative), we are tuning that E to exactly 659.25. If on the other hand we tune the E sharp by about 3/4 of a cycle (so there is no beats) we are tuning it to say 440.75 on the meter. It ends up all working out and all the ratios in math are taken care of internally in the meter.

It is even easier if they/we convert cycles per second (HZ) to cents. One HZ is for all practical purposes equal to 4 cents. So if the meter reads +3 Cents in the case of E above, then it is about 3/4 of a cycle sharp. If C# is -16 cents, it is 4 cycles flat. And so on.

This is why it is better to use cents because you get away pretty much from having to use fractions such as 440.75 as above when it says +3 cents its the same. So -16 cents would be very close to 4 cycles (HZ) flat.

To summarize it all using two examples.

C#=440 (on the meter) =554.37HZ or 0 Cents.

C#=436 (on the meter) =550Hz or -16 Cents.

Please note to my electronic "guru" friends, I have rounded off just for purposes of explantion.

carl

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 11 May 2004 5:32 am

Thanks, Carl

So, when I think I'm tuning the G#'s to 436.5, how many cents is it flat?

thx

bob

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 11 May 2004 8:04 am

Bob,

It is (440-436.5) = 3.5 times 4 = 14 cents flat. Or -14 cents.

Incidently, "each cycle is equal to 4 cents" is a very close approximation. It is not exactly 4. But for all practical purposes it is for our use. Thus you can do the simple math above to find out what the reference (440) number is in cents for any given shift from 440.

Two examples:

439 = -4 cents

442.5 = + 10 cents

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 11 May 2004 at 01:56 PM.]

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 11 May 2004 8:29 am

Thanks, Carl

You always explain this stuff so well!

So, which tuner is your favorite?

bob

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 11 May 2004 2:12 pm

oh nevermind

[This message was edited by David Mullis on 11 May 2004 at 03:13 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 11 May 2004 2:47 pm

My favorite is the Precision Strobe Tuner (PST-3). I believe it it the Rolls Royce of all tuners. But terribly expensive. So My second favorite would be the Petersen V-Sam.

In either case, these tuners make tuning a pedal steel a real delight and very fast while being ultra accurate.

carl

Jeff Hogsten · Post by **Jeff Hogsten** » 14 May 2004 8:36 am

there was a tuner out like that about 20 years ago and I had one, someone stole it about five years ago, I cant remember the name of it but I loved it more than any tuner Ive owned and Ive had a lot, I think it was a acrosonic but not sure, I had a chart made out, I tuned my A to 440 with pedals down and went from there that made a on the sixth string 220 and so on Ive ofter wondered why no one else has done that it makes more sense than anything to me just look at the number instead of reading a meter Jeff

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 17 May 2004 7:18 pm

It was called the Acoustyx digital tuner, they went out of business but I still use one today. Best tuner I've ever used, it's easy enough to learn the numbers and I refer to a chart when doing adjustments sometimes. No dials or switches, just plug in and it reads out the frequencies. [This message was edited by Mark Durante on 17 May 2004 at 08:19 PM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 18 May 2004 8:02 pm

I had a Conn Strobo-conn in the 70's when I was in Phoenix. A great tuner! Accurate and fast.
I never should have sold it, but I was moving to Michigan and sold most of my stuff before I left.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 19 May 2004 6:53 am

Al,

For all practical purposes, the PST-3 mentioned above is a 100% electronic version of the old reliable Conn Strobe tuner. It is one of the reasons I love it soo much. But it has many wonderful features the Conn did not have. The only disadvantage is its high price; $440.00.

carl

Pee Wee Rogers · Post by **Pee Wee Rogers** » 19 May 2004 12:18 pm

Peterson V-SAM all pre-programmed.

Try it ... you'll like it.

Pee Wee