Does any one use the effects loop on a Nash 400?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 26 Feb 2004 7:27 pm

I've always gone fron the guitar to the pedal to my effects to the amp. Should I use the in/out jacks on the Nashvilee 400? If so Why?

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 26 Feb 2004 8:17 pm

Dave,

The soul purpose of the effects "out/in" Jacks, is to allow the amplifier to "see" the full signal the PU is putting out; without vol pedals and/or effects units causing a deterioration in the sound BEFORE it gets to the amp. This is particularly true when it comes to noise.

Then after the sound has been amplfied in the pre-amp stages of the amp and "matched"; these devices can be inserted in the chain with none of the above anomolies.

Sadly, because of the subjectivity of sound, players will go against this for any number of reasons and in many cases put the volume pedal an/or affects between the guitar and the amp.

Adding even more confusion to this is when one uses a match box like the goodrich or the "active" volume pedal like the Hilton, these devices negate the need for effects jacks for all practical purposes.

So we have a myriad of possiblities. There is an ole saying in the technical world,

"Flexibility breeds complexity." No truer words were ever spoken. So best advice:

Try it both ways, and choose the method YOU are happy with. But realize that what you were happy with before may be just the opposite to what you are happy with now; due to that infernal "subjectivity".

May Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 26 Feb 2004 9:27 pm

Yep....Carl alwys comes through

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 1 Mar 2004 10:35 am

I had one "pro" player tell me that the use of two additional cables is "too much trouble" when using the three cord hookup, but he had a Matchbox and a Matchbro connected to the same guitar. Go figure.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 1 Mar 2004 1:29 pm

Mike,

Could one accurately state that is,

"Going all the way around one's fist to get to one's thumb"?

carl

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 2 Mar 2004 11:20 am

I use them, if I am going to plug effects in. I use the two different fx loops for different packages of sound, so to speak. The thing that I dug about it is that the bypass sound on stompboxes or effects in general typically sounds like crap.

By going on the effects loop, you can have perfect bypass... without the tinny sound of pedals bypassing themselves. That, and you can have a footswitch that will tweak the reverb, and each of the fx loops... easier than having to tap dance over between two and six devices.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 3 Mar 2004 3:50 pm

Carl,
Please excuse my dumbness but,I'm reading you to say.....go direct from guitar to amp in,out to vol pedal,to fx unit to input on amp.If this is correct,I will try it.Like everyone else I'm chasing the "tone monster"I may have already cought him a couple times and not realised it..

My setup is,guitar to tuner,to vol pedal,to amp input ,fx unit to in/out on amp.

I tried the in/out for vol pedal,guitar to tuner,to fx,to amp,but did'nt like what I heard,or thought I heard.

(maybe I just need to practice more)

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Bill Ford

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 3 Mar 2004 4:23 pm

It seems to me that the highs are reduced but the sustain is improved. I use about 6 Boss tone stomp boxes AC powered after a Sho-Bud or Emmons pot pedal.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 3 Mar 2004 4:25 pm

By the way Bill - MY tuner is a Korg and not suitable for inline use - It kills the sound big time.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 3 Mar 2004 4:31 pm

Thanks Dave,I'll try that with my tuner(Korg)

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Bill Ford

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Mar 2004 5:15 pm

When Peavey indroduced their Session 500, one of the first players to try it was Wally Murphy on the stage of the ISGC. The Peavey crew assisted in connecting Wally's Guitar to the amp using the 3 cable setup; like it was designed for.

After the first tune, Wally was not at all pleased with the sound. And told Hollis Calvert about it in no uncertain terms. I still have that conversation on tape.

This is not uncommon in any facet of sound. Add to this the way engineers view sound; versus the way players view it; and mucho debate and consternation is guaranteed.

The third element of sound "debate" is amps and controls on guitars are mysteries to many. So in essense there is NO equating with what is behind the face plate of a given amp or guitar to most players.

So, down thru the years, literally myriads of things have come into being that were "designed" to overcome problems and "improve" sound reproduction. But the real problem is,

"one person's cup of tea is another person's anathema".

Wally was accustomed to the losses his volume pedal introduced going from his guitar-ped-amp. When those loses were no longer present, the resultant sound was NOT at all what he liked. And he has a right to have the sound HE wanted.

This scenario has played out a million and one times throughout the history of dealing with sound.

So lest there be any doubt, the 3 wire cable has ONE and only one objective. And that objective is NOT to make a player perceive sound is "better".

The objective is to overcome a volume pedal's and/or an affects unit's tendency to degrade what the PU is putting out; BEFORE the amp has had a chance to amplify it sufficiently and "match" it to the vol ped and/or affects unit(s). That is ALL. NOTHING more.

Now, does that mean a player is going to like it? Does it mean every volume pedal or every effects unit is going to degrade the sound the same (or at all)? Does it mean the sound is going to be perceived better IF in each case when one switches from a single cable to 3 cables?

The answer to all three is NO. Absolutely not.

My point is this. The three cables were designed for one thing only as stated above. IF any player likes the degraded sound, fine. Go with one cable. ON the other hand, if you go direct AND you notice the degradation is gone and you like it stay with the 3 cable hookup.

We humans like different things. And such, it is YOU that must be pleased. But please try to educate yourself on WHAT each peace of gear was designed to do.

For in this way, you can be a more informed "judge" of what you like. Remember though, time of day, invironment, your mental health at any given moment, etc, plays a major role in sound perception.

May our precious Jesus bless you all always,

carl

A truly Better Way

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 4 Mar 2004 4:51 pm

Carl,
I take that to be a yes to my question..

Dave,
I just tried bypassing the tuner,thanks for the tip.Also tried it with my Seiko747,not as bad as the Korg,but still better without,you learn something new every day.

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Bill Ford

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 4 Mar 2004 5:54 pm

Bill,

Forgive me. And indeed the answer is yes,

carl