Lightweight Basic Steel Amplifier

Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 25 Dec 2003 7:23 am

A friend of mine and myself have been kicking around the idea of making a custom amp that would be in the 150 watt RMs range that would be dedicated to light weight and good sound quality. I know a lot of us steel players are getting some age on us and over the years physical trauma and arthritis has taken it's toll on our backs and other joints. My question is: If we make a good sturdy built amp with a great clean sound, premium speaker, Power of 150 Watts RMS, look good,weigh betwen 30 to 35 lbs, and be reasonably priced, what kind of demand to you think we would have for them?

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Sierra Session and MSA Classic Guitars, Nashville 400, Session 400, and Evans FET 500 HiVolt, and Gretsch Nashville Pro Steel Amps, Keith Hilton Digital Sustain pedal and Digital Sustain Box .
Harold Parris email hparris9@aol.com

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 25 Dec 2003 7:29 am

Not to rain on your parade, but from my experience, I can tell you this... unless you ahve the ability to be set up for large scale production etc, you'll have more into actually producing 1 amp than you can buy a good Peavey amp (almost double what a used amp would cost!). For you to account for yoru time, and evne if you plan on making a few $$ on it, you are going to be pricing somewhere between an Evans and a Webb..
Evans is doing exactly what you are talking about, with the SE150, weighing in at just under 40lbs, 15" speaker, and 150watts output (I've heard that some guys actually liek the JE150 as well, for e9 only...f rom what I understand, same amp, just smaller lighter enclosuer/speaker).

After the harsh rality, I want to add this, if you do decide to go into this venture, if even to see if it can be done or even just for your own personal satisfaction, feel free to drop me a line-- I wish you the best, and I'm willing to lend any technical or other advice as you wish for.
[This message was edited by Gino Iorfida on 25 December 2003 at 07:31 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Dec 2003 6:12 pm

Sounds like you're talking a solid-state amp with a 12" or 15" neodymium speaker, and an aluminum chassis? To be honest, it all boils down to what it sounds like. Many amps close to those specs (like a Polytone MB-V, or a Fender Stage 112,) have the right "specs", but don't have the "sound" we're looking for. We steelers are a fickle bunch where sound is concerned, so determining the market before we get to try the product is a crap-shoot, at best. Another factor to be considered would be the price of the thing.

Are you trying to compete with the big manufacturers, or the botique ones? The more you can tell us, the more we can tell you!

Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 25 Dec 2003 8:44 pm

I was thinking about just custom making the amps in a limited number and trying to sell them as low as possible in price. I was thinking of trying for a range less than $800. If I make some they will sound good. The sound is the most important part. The weight is secondary. I have a good idea what sound most of us steelers would like. I may try to build a few protos and carry them to some of the bigger shows and let players hear them and play through them too. If they weighed 10 lbs and had 500 watts you couldn't give them away if they didn't have a good steel guitar sound. Aluminum chasis, digital reverb, neo speaker, and a light weight but sturdy cabinet will get the weight factor in line.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 25 Dec 2003 9:03 pm

The sound would be everything. How about a clean but warm tube preamp and a light-weight solid-state power amp and a neodymium speaker in a Nashville 400 size package? Your problem will be that it either has to compete with Peavey in price (seemingly impossible), or it has to compete with Evans and Webb for sound (also tough).

Another way to deal with the weight problem is to make a separate head and speaker cabinet. For some reason steelers resist that. But I have a Vibrasonic head. It is all tube and 100 watts (like a Dual Showman Reverb). It weighs about 35 lbs. I use a separate homemade 15" closed-back reflex cabinet that also weighs about 35 lbs. (it could probably be smaller and lighter and still have good sound for steel). This is way easier to carry around than a 75-85 lb. Twin Reverb, and sounds better. With a ss power amp you could have a head that was more powerful but even lighter. Another nice thing about a head is that you can set it beside your steel and tweak it between songs, while your speaker sits back behind you out of reach.

An option that would be nice for those really high volume gigs would be a second speaker that is a ss active cabinet that would let you more or less double the output without having to buy a second amp. The way I invision this, you would just add additional light-weight pieces to the system to get more volume for bigger venues. The first piece would be the amp (either combo, or head and single cabinet). Then you could add an extension speaker in parallel for and additional 50% boost. Or, for 100% boost, add an active speaker. It could have essentially the same ss power amp as the original amp, and just tap into a second outlet from the tube preamp. None of the pieces would weigh more than 30 or 35 lbs. You'd just carry more pieces in for bigger venues. What do you think?[This message was edited by David Doggett on 25 December 2003 at 09:06 PM.]

Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 25 Dec 2003 9:42 pm

That powered speaker cabinet is a good idea. I have a JBL Eon that I've used as an extension and you can bet it puts out the punch. It has a 15" speaker and horn and put out 150 watts RMS I think. That is a good item to have when doing outdoor gigs especially.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 25 Dec 2003 10:16 pm

Back in the 70's I saw a need for a small powerful Bass amp in Nashvile to take on the road. I built one with 4 band EQ and 250 watts RMS ( have to remeber this was 1974 and 250 watts was powerful then) In as small of a cabinet as I could fit it into With a 15" Cerwin Vega speaker. That amp has never failed since 1974 and I have accidentally shorted the speaker leads out for a long time and never blown up the Solid state power amp. Couldn't kill it, so I gave it to my youngest daughter to learn to play bass on, she hasn't been able to break it either.

Everybody thought they were great, but didn't want to pay the price. actually wanted me to give them one for promotion. I could have promoted myself right into the Poorhouse.

In short, you can make a small fortune building amps, but only if you start with a large one.[This message was edited by John Floyd on 25 December 2003 at 10:22 PM.]

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 26 Dec 2003 4:18 am

Harold, What you are looking for is made already. It is called an Evans SE-200. Very clean, quiet, light, and powerful. I love mine.

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1985 Emmons push-pull,Evans SE200

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 26 Dec 2003 5:49 am

I have an old Session with a beat up cabinet, what I plan to do is make a new cabinet out of 1/4" plywood with plenty of bracing (pine) in the right spots, then when peavey comes out with their neo speaker, put one of those in, I have a light weight 60 watt amp that I use for small rooms, every time I carry it I wish my Twin or Session weighed the same.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 26 Dec 2003 5:34 pm

Harold-I think an Amp you described would be a real winner.

I am sure that Peavey will eventually build it. They are getting close with the 112.
Now with the neo speaker and a little more power, they just might be the new "400"...Happy New Year.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 30 Dec 2003 8:09 pm

It's a wonderful concept and worth pursuing. I can't say I'd invest in the technology, since I already have something very similar. It's a TubeWorks preamp, GK Micro (guitar amp--I just use the power amp) and a 15" EV speaker in a separate cab. Easy to carry around and the head is very light weight. Also doubles as a PA amp (the GK) using a Behringer mixer and different speakers.

Small is beautiful. I don't play that loud and usually use a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, but the hybrid works with any other situation that demands more power. I've owned most of the "P" brand amps and I can only say that if I need 250 watts then my hearing is in trouble! Oh yes, I do play PEDAL steel and get down on the low notes of my S12 Zum all the time. I just don't need all that headroom. I played at a large dance hall the other night (it had been a while for me) and the rig performed flawlessly. I was between a lead guitarist using a Fender Twin and a fiddler playing a Peavey Renown with 2 X 12s. I had no problem being heard.

Shop around and you can find similar components. Quality pre-amps aren't that plentiful but they're around. TubeWorks, Mesa, Alembic to name a few.

Lots of choices for power amps these days. Check out Musician's friend. As to speaker cabs, Duane Marrs builds nice ones, Peavey does too. The powered speaker cab is the latest thing. I'd go that route if I were to do over. Some great stuff on the market from JBL, Peavey, Behringer, etc.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 30 Dec 2003 8:13 pm

I forgot to mention, the Gallien-Krueger Mirco puts out 120 watts into 8 ohms.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 30 Dec 2003 8:14 pm

... and weighs less than 10 lbs.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 1 Jan 2004 7:36 am

GD Walker builds the best in a Preamp, I looked all over for a Clean preamp with plenty of control. You can find it at: http://www.stereosteel.com/