Recording Direct

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 7 Dec 2003 7:58 pm

I know this topic has been discussed before but I hope I can throw a different angle on it. I did 2 songs over the weekend where I went straight into the board. I did not use my amp because the guys heard a slight hum after the first recording. I am unhappy with the sound of my steel without the amp. Would it be better to use the amp and mic it and not line out of the amp? I read where Paul Franklin always uses his amp and has a mic on it. I wonder what some of the big session players do when they record. I have always took pride in being clean and smooth and having a good sound but I have not achieved in the studio what I get playing live. Maybe I do not know how to play in a studio to achieve the sound I am looking for. Any feedback would sure be helpful.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 7 Dec 2003 8:15 pm

Paul what pickup is in your steel? What amp are you wanting to use?
Ricky

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 8 Dec 2003 5:15 am

Ricky, I have a Mullen steel I bought new in 1991. I am using a Peavey Nashville 400 and an Alesis Quadraverb with a light chorus. Saturday we lined out of the effects unit right into the board. The pickup on the E9th was changed by Bud Carter 3 or 4 years ago so it is not the original pickup that came with the guitar. My memory slips me on what he put on the E9th neck for me.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 8 Dec 2003 10:26 am

Thanks for the info Paul..
I would suspect that the noise was from the quad in the nash...>did you try just your steel to the amp and mic? If so...if there was still a buzz...turn the reverb off on the amp...and have the reverb put on in the mix...and if that still buzzes...than there's a ground prob. in the amp...and the studio I'm sure has an another amp layin' around there somewhere.
Most new steels are "Flat Response" guitars...meaning you need to color them for them to sound good....as why it didn't sound all that swell direct.
Ricky

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 8 Dec 2003 10:37 am

Ricky, I do not really understand the phrase "color them". I know nothing about the board and the guys are fairly new at all this as well. I just know what a steel should sound like and I am not getting the results.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Dec 2003 10:37 am

On the tracks you have cut, try putting some eq. and light chorus and reverb on the console patch.
If you still can't dial in the sound, definitely try without the Quadreverb. They are noisy critters.

If it is possible with, the original track, and you really like the performance see if the studio can put it in a synced up Protools and use a Line 6 Amp farm plug-in to restore something resembling an amps sound with you effects types before it, and or after it in the tracyh assigns.. Plus have the engineer duplicate your amp sound after listening to you play if he doesn't remember it.

This might help save a good track.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Dec 2003 11:13 am

I've never been happy with a direct-from-the-volume-pedal sound, but I have had good results from a preamp output. Still, the best sound comes from miking a speaker, in my opinion.

Often a "hum problem" is really the result of not picking hard enough. Think in terms of signal/noise ratio. Use a noise gate to remove the hum when you're totally silent, and give them more signal to work with when you're playing. Unless something is radically wrong with your amp, they shouldn't even hear the hum when you're playing.

Using an "amp farm" in a computer seems like a lot of work to me, especially when you have real amplifiers sitting around!

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JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 8 Dec 2003 11:49 am

True, true. No steel, or regular guitar for that matter, will sound good dry into the board. You'll need some kind of a preamp, or better a POD or GT-6 with amp modeling in them. You can direct from them and it will sound great. But right off the volume pedal won't work-and the studio cats should have known that.

I use the GT-6, but if you don't have that I'd have them mic the amp-what Ricky means by coloring the sound is it needs an amp in there somewhere-the sound off the pickups is just dry as a bone. And in most cases it's best to not record with effects anyway, as you may want a different verb or delay when mix time comes around.

And b0b's right, a noise gate is generally critical for getting rid of the little noises and hums in the background. I always use a little mild compression as well, just to keep the levels in line-but you need to set it right or you'll hear it "breathing" when it kicks in. A little goes a long way.

I'm running Sonar 3 and there are some plugins you can use on the exisitng track to liven it up(amp simulators) but really, b0b said it all-that's a long way around the block when there's a real amp sitting right there in the room.

JB

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Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 8 Dec 2003 5:53 pm

Thanks guys for the input. I believe the one gentleman was right that a steel or guitar do not sound good going right to the board. I do have a noise gate I will give a try. I have played in a couple of studios before and I never ran into this problem with my sound. I believe putting the mic on the amp is the thing to try. It is about the only thing we have not tried so far. I will let you know how it works out. I have noticed the keyboard sounds good while the guitar is not as full as I have heard before. There is a solution we just have to find it.

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 8 Dec 2003 7:51 pm

Paul, I have a unit made by ADA called the Micro-Cab. It is a cabnit emulator that has different speaker simulations like open back or closed back, one 12', two 12' or a four 12" speaker cabinet. It also has a treble and bass control. Not an expensive unit, and I don't know if it's made anymore. But it's the best sound I've heard recording direct. I've been fooling around lately with running from my guitar to the Micro-Cab, and then into a home CD burner. Pretty good results. If you can locate one they are probably going to be cheap and will do a good job for you. I got mine in about 1994, just before I got out of the business. I actually liked recording direct with it better than a SM-57 in front of the amp, (usually all that was left after the drummer and guitar got through being miked.)

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 13 Dec 2003 2:06 pm

Randy,
Actaully recording a steel from an amp, the SM57 is really one of the most widely used mic's in the industry to mic electric guitar thru an amp...BTW, that was some fine playing you did in Conn. at the 30th P.S. show !!..Jim

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 13 Dec 2003 7:04 pm

Paul, I use a Evans Pre-amp with a Lexicon MPX 100, a Nano-verb (for flange or chorus)and a ADA micro cab. I don't think you can beat using amps but, the studios I play at everything's direct. I like the sound I get with my equipment. My guitar is a JCH with
GL E-66 pu's.
Tony[This message was edited by Tony Dingus on 13 December 2003 at 07:05 PM.]

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 13 Dec 2003 7:14 pm

I remember reading an interview with Buddy Emmons in the PV Monitor magizine along with interviews of Lloyd Green & Paul Franklin . At that time ( it was a few years ago) he used a PV Tube-Fex for eq & compression ans a Lexicon PCM 80 or 81 for delay and reverb and talked about going direct on George Strait albums.
Later he went with a Digitech pre-amp/ effects unit. Check his web site for this.