Help? Nashville 1000 settings w/my guitar

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 13 Nov 2003 10:33 am

Hi all,

I have recently acquired a new Nashville 1000 to use with a Carter SD-12 I purchased a little while ago. The Carter has the George L standard pickup.

Anyhow, I have two questions I'm hoping someone can help me with.

1) It seems that I am having a very difficult time getting a very bright sound anywhere on the guitar using the Nashville....when plugged into my Fender Deluxe 112, it shines a bit more than when using the Nashville. To get a nice bright tone with the Nashville, I have to run the High and Presence controls each at +9 or more, which then invites unwanted hiss. I see from old Forum topics that most people run their High and Presence much lower than that......is it because of the pickups I am using?

2) I notice that with all of my amps, my guitar is very hot/loud (the same loudness as if I plug in a Strat with its volume at 10). This, of course, causes the guitar to distort when plugged into the High Gain. Yet, my pickups are set a bit lower than is usually standard (about the thickness of two quarters). If I plug into the Low Gain, I get a clearer tone, but am then forced to set the Pre Gain at +5 and the Master Gain at +8 to achieve the loudness I need when playing with my band.....something just doesn't seem right here....and it seems to be the same issue with my other amps as well (amps will distort in the high gain input). Is it typical of all steels to have such a high output? Is what I am experiencing normal?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide!!!

Joe

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Nov 2003 11:00 am

I don't know specifics about the NV 1000 (I have a NV 400), but what you are experiencing is normal in the sense that with a regular guitar you just plug it in and play, but with a steel it is not so simple. The problem with looking at people's settings on the Forum is that you don't really know their playing situation. Many of the old boys play quietly and prettily along with a band that does likewise, including a drummer who may be playing with brushes. If you play with younger players including a bass player with a mega rig and a miked drummer who plays his full set flat out all the time, you have completely different requirements. My NV 400 (200 watts solid state) and Fender Vibrasonic (100 watts all tube) both sound fantastic at moderate volumes with quiet groups, and I have no trouble dialing in good sounding EQ. But in the one loud group I play in, neither amp sounds good maxed out. It seems with steel (because of the way we use the volume pedal) you need an amp with much more power than you play at.

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 13 Nov 2003 5:02 pm

I have a Nshvl. 1000. Try this:
input: low gain
pregain: 3.5
low: +12
mid: -3
shift: square on 800
high: almost +3 to +3
presence: +4 to +6
reverb: to taste
master gain: 5
Settings to fool with, FWIW. Yes, what you're experiencing is normal; master gain should lead pregain. I've had it cranked that much as you did in a live setting before. Sounded great.
Oh, & you might try cutting the mids as that can add some sparkle you're wanting without having to boost the presence that much.[This message was edited by Rex Thomas on 13 November 2003 at 05:05 PM.]

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 13 Nov 2003 6:14 pm

Rex,

Here are my settings:

input: low gain
pregain: 5
low: +9
mid: -8
shift: 800
high: +9 to +12
presence: +9 to +12
reverb: 4
master gain: 8

After fiddling with the knobs for a combined two hours over two days, this came to be the best I could do for my guitar....I do have as much sparkle as could be expected with humbuckers, yet the hiss gets pretty loud with the High, Presence and Master Gain all cranked so high.

I guess I am not sure why, when I plug into the high gain and set the Pre Gain to +2, I still get distortion....especially when the manual indicates that most steels should be plugged into the High Gain. If I could use the High Gain, I wouldn't have to crank the Master Gain so high and the hiss from the amp would be gone.

I appreciate the reponses guys.....I am still a bit baffled on all this though...I would expect my steel to sound clear as day plugged into either input

Joe

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 13 Nov 2003 6:57 pm

Ok, I am baffled by the distortion thing, but what I did was plug into high gain, set the pregain at 2 like yours, but I set the master gain at 3.5. Cranked it; clean, no distortion.
Having said that this is a "different strokes" thing & you're trying to get what sounds right to you, I tried your settings. YEOW!! Took the enamel off my teeth. Bright alright, & yes, the hiss poses a problem.
Now I know the conditions are different. My steel is a mica Derby D-10 with standard E-66's. Also, the amp is on a stand aimed directly at my ear so I can hear as exact as I can what I'm putting out.
Just for grins, if you use the amp on the floor you might try experimenting with aiming the speaker more directly to one of your ears, like a monitor.
Having said I could be wrong, I think what's happening is you're trying to get the amp to sound good with the speaker pointing away from your ear to cover the room which I understand if your not using sound reinforcement. Ok, IMHO, although I know you have to crank to cover a room, you should still check the amp's EQ by listening directly to the speaker. If it's not too bright to you, then I'm done here. If it is, back off those highs & get it so it sounds right to you DIRECTLY OUT OF THE SPEAKER. Now, when you set 'er back on the floor, sure it will seem muddier, but NOT to the listener because they're catching your sound more straight on than you are.
Didn't mean to wear you out, but I just felt led to offer my thoughts.
I'm going to be up in Indy working "The Lion King, Live" in March. I'm bringing my steel with me to practice during the day. Let's try to meet & compare notes. (pun intended)
Take care, Joe.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Nov 2003 4:09 pm

The Low Gain input is a 10DB signal cut from the HI Gain input. This is intended for Instruments such as Keyboards that have very HI gain outputs. On this amp, it shouldn't even be there. It should have been left off in my opinion. The HI Gain input is intended for the Steel and all Guitars.

Sounds like your amp may have a problem..

Typical N1000 and N400 settings ( starting points )

based on a 12 hour clock ..not the knob markings..

HI Gain Input

bass 12:00 or 1:00
Mids 8:00
shift 800
Hi 12:00 or 1:00
pres. 12:00 or 1:00

pre gain 3 or 4 ( knob marking)
Master gain 5 or more ( knob marking) ..The Master gain should always be higher,not equal or lower than the pre gain. This power amp wants to work..and it does.

This is an exceptionally clean amp and you should have no distortion at all especially at low playing volume levels.

On gigs I usually have the Pre gain at around 4 and the Master at approx 7. Lots of power and clarity for the bottom end.

Maybe contact Mike Brown for a comment or suggestion.
Good Luck

T[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 November 2003 at 03:35 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 November 2003 at 06:09 AM.]

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 14 Nov 2003 6:06 pm

Hmm... According to Peavey's Nshvl 1000 operating guide their settings for E9th are:
pregain: 3
low: +6 to +12
mid: -6
shift: 800
high: +3 to +9
presence: +6 to +9
master: 5
That, according to Peavey, is typical.
I will agree with Tony that you shouldn't have distortion, regardless of what channel, & make sure the master is ahead of the pregain.
...and that contacting Mike Brown is a good idea.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 15 Nov 2003 10:24 am

I had simular results when my 1000's were new. (I have three and use two with my pedal steel and one with my non pedal steel)
I found that the amps needed a "break in" time period. After about two or three days of really "slamming" the amps and playing them about as hard and loud as I could, they really began to come around. You also might try turning them on and leaving them on for several days.
I also find that the hiss varies from venue to venue. I would guess that this is caused by different electrical circumstances. I usually set my pre gain around 3 or 4 and my post gain around 5 or 6. Much more than that and I start to get some unwanted sounds. However, even if I go higher than that, it's not nearly as bad as it was the first few days when the amps were brand new.
Some other things to consider are are your cords (I like George L's), the height relation of your pickup to the strings, the pickup itself, your volume pedal and if you use one as I do, the settings of a Goodrich Matchbox or simular unit. Also, if you use external effects,,,,where you place them in relation to your guitar and amp. As a rule, keep your effects away from the pickup end of the guitar or at least out of the "magnetic field" of the pickups.
Using two amps as I usually do, sometimes I have to use a ground lift on one of the amps.
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 15 Nov 2003 3:51 pm

All,

Thanks for all of the responses.....I have contacted Mike Brown and he has been very helpful.

It appears that my second problem must be due to the pickup I am using (George L 12 standard). It is wired very "hot". If I were to play the steel, then unplug the jack from my steel and put it into the jack of my Strat, I would have to crank the Strat's volume to "10" to get the same output level as the steel. On my Carter, the pickup can only be lowered to just a hair under 1/8" beneath the strings, which does not really alleviate the problem. If I plug into the high gain input, I do not get a crisp, clear sound from the steel when playing triads (slight distortion, if you will). But, when plugged into the low gain (and turning the volume up to compensate), I do get a clear (and surprisingly warmer) tone with what sounds like a reduction of the mids. Unfortunately, turning the volume up that much higher adds to the amps "hiss", especially at my "high" and "presence" settings. I must add that when I plugged into the high gain, I tried all of the various "pre" and "master" gain settings to see if there was a way to elimiate the slight (and I do mean slight) distortion occuring on the triads.....nope! But doing the same when plugged in to the low gain, there was no combination of those levels that would allow any distortion to seep in.

As for my other problem with having to run the "High" and "Presence" at +9 or higher, I don't know if this is a problem with the amp or not. I seem to recall that the N400 I had would make my ears bleed if these controls were any higher than +6. But, I was using a Dekley at the time, and I am not sure if Dekleys use humbuckers or single-coils. If it was a single-coil, then I can see why the highs would be excessive past +6. My Carter came with a humbucker, but I like "bright" sounds coming from all registers of the guitar, thus the reason I have everything cranked so high.

Mike Brown helped me figure out different ways to hook my 1000 into my Fender and vice versa....after spending a few hours practicing with different settings, etc., I believe that my amp may not be as lacking in highs as I previously thought. To get the real sound I want out of the Fender, its high setting needs to be run about 3:00 to 4:00.....which really would be no different than the 1000.

I also saw that in the 1000's manual, the suggestion for C6 players has the high and presence each set at over +9....and the E6 settings are suggested at +9 as well. Thus, I am a bit perplexed as to why all but a couple of steelers are putting their settings at just around +3. Do most people use single-coils, perhaps?

I will try to do an A-B comparison of my amp with another local steeler's (hopefully!) and I will report back. But I think it is not the amp.

In the meantime, I would like to know if anyone else has been opting to use the low gain input versus the high gain input, and the reason why. Rex, perhaps you can share why you use the low gain?

Thanks again, all!

Joe

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 15 Nov 2003 5:01 pm

Sure, why I use low gain:
Best way I know to describe it is like going from a 7/8 bar to a 15/16 bar, 1" for that matter. Seems like high gain makes my steel sound "chunkier" which is a good sound. But I like the sound I'm getting with a 7/8 bar on low gain. Remember, I use my amp STRICTLY as a monitor, jacked up to ear level. Any gigs I've done are sound reinforced & I don't have to cover a room. Since my amp is less than strapped to my head, I get PLENTY of headroom, & I get the sound I want in low gain. And sure, I've played in high gain but then I have to fuss with the highs. I would like to add that I'm one of the fortunate one's whose direct out sounds WONDERFUL. I've heard some do, some don't. Me happy.
The new 1-12 might be a better application for monitoring, but that 1000 sounds GOOOOOD, & hopefully my back will continue to hold up, but the 1000's not that heavy anyway, & steel's my golf game now, so I don't schlep it as much.
I was just thinking that I can easily get the sound of a 10-1 (12-1 in your case) pup by going to high gain & switch to a 15/16 bar. It ain't me, babe.
Yes, I know it's a 10db difference, but in my little corner there is something going on in the high end, & low gain with my above settings & a 7/8 bar gets me where I want to go.
So there's that.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 16 Nov 2003 3:49 am

Ya see..we have reasons for everything..

Ok..I take it back..don't take that LO GAIN input off the amp...I might use it like Rex is someday..

t

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 16 Nov 2003 5:28 am

Brian Edwards · Post by **Brian Edwards** » 25 Nov 2003 5:14 pm

I couldn't resist going through these settings with my Nashville 112. The following link is to an article that has some settings by well-known players for the 1000:
http://www.peavey.com/media/pdf/steelguitar/nashville1000review.pdf

These seem to be good starting points for the 112 as well.