Hilton Pedal, again

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 22 Jun 2003 11:46 am

For the last couple of gigs, I've been playing my '64 PP, and for convenience sake I've just been using the standard Emmons volume pedal. Things were okay I guess, but something was missing that I'd been hearing lately.

So after the first set last night... an outdoor gig no less, and they can be difficult to get a sound... I hooked up my Hilton pedal. WOW!! The volume and the tone increased exponentially!!

I really don't see how I can go back to a regular pot pedal again, unless it's for the retro gigs that require a Fender Tone/Volume pedal.

The Hilton is truly an exceptional piece of equipment, one even a retro-billy like me can appreciate. If you've got an old PP with "That Sound," you don't even know what "That Sound" is until you play through a Hilton.

Keith, thanks mucho.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 22 Jun 2003 11:47 am

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 22 Jun 2003 1:54 pm

With the "right" guitar you can get "that Hilton sound".
I get great Hilton tone with my Zum

??
Dennis

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 22 Jun 2003 2:39 pm

My ZB has never sounded better than with my Hilton pedal and my Webb amp.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 22 Jun 2003 7:20 pm

Has anybody noticed yet how the black Hiltons have a bit more of "that sound" than the laquer ones do?

------------------
C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com
My Bands: Sugarland Kate and the Retreads Kecia Garland Band Shane Bridges Band Dell Conner Blues Band

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 23 Jun 2003 4:04 am

Add me to the list of happy customers. I just love that pedal. It is the best investment I have ever made to improve my sound, not counting my PP.

Larry Behm

Doug Rolfe · Post by **Doug Rolfe** » 23 Jun 2003 5:42 am

Actually Mark, it's only the black p/p Hiltons that really have "that sound". All other Hiltons just simply fall short.

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 23 Jun 2003 5:42 am

The Hilton pedal will improve any guitar's tone. Yes, even an old PP.

Has anyone else noticed on the Emmons volume pedal, it hits the floor before reaching its full travel, there by restricting its volume? Mine does as does the others I've seen. Does anyone know of a smaller collar that will work. That would speed up the ratio on the pot maybe letting it get to full volume.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Jun 2003 7:39 am

I think that "Hilton tone" is a lack of tone.. because it is not removing anything.
It passes what you give it without coloration.
So it doesn't affect 'That Sound" your steel gives you.
et voila.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 23 Jun 2003 9:14 am

David hit the nail on the head.

A volume pedal should perform one function and one function ONLY: It should make the signal being fed to the amplification louder or softer.

If it does anything tone-wise it's introducing another variable in your attempt to adjust the tone of your overall rig and I've always felt that's the function of an equalizer.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · Post by **Buck Grantham R.I.P.** » 30 Jun 2003 11:12 am

Hilton is a great pedal !!!!!!!!! Mine is over 2 years old and no problems at all.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 30 Jun 2003 7:47 pm

Well, I'd just like to say this about that! “This”

------------------
“Big John” wknsg®
Franklin, D–10 w/9 & 8
Peavey, Classic 50 – 212
Enhancer, E–LG
Ibanez, AD–9 http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 3 Jul 2003 2:59 am

At the severe risk of getting flamed, I feel obligated to admit: I bought one, didn't like it and sold it on the Forum a while ago.
I found it:
1)too high (I like the low to the floor type)
2)it made my tone too bright
3)pedal action too stiff
4)and mainly, the attached AC cord was a pain
I'm sorry! This doesn't mean Keith is a bad guy!! It's just one..little..opinion!

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Jul 2003 11:01 am

I want to thank all those who have said kind words about my pedal. This means a lot to me because all of you are such great players.
I realize it is impossible to please everyone, and I do respect Tony Palmer's opinion. 3 of the things Tony says he dislikes about my pedal are difficult to understand. We make a low profile pedal which------ "is"----- the lowest pedal in the world that still moves up down the standard 1 1/2 inches. My pedal has a tone control that can remove highs. If you turn the control all the way on, the tone can get really into the bass. For Tony to say my pedal is too bright makes little sense, since there is a tone control that has the ability to roll off highs, even to the point where the sound is bassy and muddy. If that is still to bright, I can install a bigger tone capacitor and make more bass where it sounds in the range of a bass guitar. What Tony said about the pedal being to bright really makes me wonder what his real motivation was for making this post?
The action of my pedal is "not" stiff. I can prove there is less tension up and down than with a pot pedal. We have measured this resistance with instruments, and know what the pressure is with my pedal as compaired to a pot pedal. If there has been a problem with the action, and the brightness, why havn't you contacted me about repairs Tony? That is what I can't understand? I help everyone who contacts me. Here is my home phone number: 417-581-4158. May I ask who you purchased your pedal from? The one statement I will agree with is that the AC attached cord is a pain, but having to put gas in a car is a pain also. I wish I could have helped you Tony. The import thing to me is the many great shows using my pedal-Tim McGraw, Shania Twain, Clint Black, Merl Haggard, Mel Tillis, Roy Clark and hundreds more. I feel honored that most of the great players like; Hal Rugg, John Hughey, Herby Wallace, Doug Jernigan,Tom Brumley, Bobbe Seymour, Dickey Overby, Jerry Roller, Herb Steiner and hundreds and hundreds more use my pedal. I feel honored that so many makers of steel guitars sell my pedal. To all these people let me say, "Thank you! I am honored you have chosen to buy my product". I can not help those who have a problem with my pedal, unless they contact me. Again, I respect Tony's opinion, reguardless of his motive. [This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 03 July 2003 at 01:17 PM.]

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 3 Jul 2003 11:20 am

Thank you very much for that response Keith. You're right, I should have contacted you. Everything you said makes sense.
I had a hunch there might have been some adjustments that could have "fixed" my requirements...I guess I was just lazy.
Now if you can just make one without that
#$@%& cord.....!

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 3 Jul 2003 12:26 pm

Tony, thanks for understanding. I know you are a great player and a good guy. I get really involved in wanting to help people. Maybe I can talk you into taking a second look one of these days. More than anything, I want to be remembered as a nice that cares.

Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 3 Jul 2003 7:22 pm

It's hard to understand how anyone could find a Hilton's pedal action too stiff, unless there was a problem somewhere. Mine feels like it's barely there. It was like that 'from the factory.' I've never messed with how it's attached to the mounting, so I don't know if that can affect anything. It's also too bad Tony couldn't have tried a low-pro model. Mine's great.

Roger Crawford · Post by **Roger Crawford** » 4 Jul 2003 8:23 am

Randy...my Emmons pedal gives me the same problem. I've wondered about shortening the tongue or changing the angle of the tab on the bottom of the tongue to get more travel. But then I got a Hilton pedal and put this one in the closet![This message was edited by Roger Crawford on 04 July 2003 at 09:24 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 4 Jul 2003 8:34 am

When I used my new Hilton for the first time I was so enthused with the result that I was hesitant to change anything for fear that it would be detrimental! I am still using the original settings because it sounds right to me, and I have come to believe that Keith knows what he is doing!
www.genejones.com

Jerry Brightman · Post by **Jerry Brightman** » 4 Jul 2003 9:46 am

Keith,

Were proud to be authorized dealers for your fine line of products...Guess more and more are finding out about them as the above posts sure indicate...We have them in stock, ready to ship, and if you mention this post, we'll even give you free freight in the US for the month of July...now is your chance to see why everybody is switching to them...Thanks Keith!

Jerry and Dana
http://www.allsteelguitar.com [This message was edited by Jerry Brightman on 07 July 2003 at 12:05 PM.]

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 4 Jul 2003 3:27 pm

I played the pot pedals with the old p/p's and it was fine. I got a newer Emmons all pull guitar and it needed help so I went to new pick-ups and it was OK but it was the Hilton pedal that got it where I liked it. You would never think the old Emmons p/p's could sound better but miracles do happen. I'm back to the p/p's or an old Sho-Bud with the Hilton. The only thing I miss about the old pedal is the attack was quicker.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 4 Jul 2003 5:14 pm

Frank. I've had success tweaking the Hilton's response with the two pots on bottom. You can get a smooth onset or a quicker one. Pretty tweakable if you spend time with the controls.

------------------
Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 4 Jul 2003 5:33 pm

Roger, that's about what I did to. I was thinking of cutting the arm and then recessing where the stop is. But when I measured how much distance was left when the arm hit the floor it was about .100 thousanths. By taking the rubber piece off that the arm stops on I gained .125 thousanths. So, by adjusting the pot to start at the new starting point I actually gained .025 more than if I had cut off the arm. I know It's not as good as the Hilton pedal but it does fill a need.[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 04 July 2003 at 06:34 PM.]

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 4 Jul 2003 6:03 pm

Keith,

Is the Hilton pedal designed to be used only with specific pickups and not used with others? In another thread I read advice to not use a Hilton pedal with a particular Lawrence pickup, but it's okay with another BL. Is the Hilton considered an active pedal? I have not used a Hilton pedal yet, but I read with great interest the glowing reviews and I very much respect the super players using and endorsing them.

One post noted that the pedal's place is to 'get out of the way'. I must tell you that my Li'l Izzy (impedance matching/buffering device) is an integral part of my signal chain (combined with a 500K pot pedal). It evens out the signal across the travel of the pedal and imparts a sweet "sheen" to my sound. It's a very distinctive and recognizable effect.

Mike

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 4 Jul 2003 7:34 pm

Randy, I think a cure to the problem with the Emmons pedal leaving resistance on the pot can be cured best by changing the diameter of the pulley the string is wrapped around. A slight decrease in the pulley diameter would mean more movement. A slight increase in the pulley diameter would mean less movement. If I am not mistaken, John Hughey changed the diameter of the pulley on his old Emmons pedal before he started using my pedal. Randy, some of the newer pots do not rotate the same degrees as the pots in the good old days. The degree of rotation is different on the old and new Clairstat pots and other pots. So what works for one pot might not work for a different pot. One might rotate 270 degrees and another one rotate 255 degrees. The pots coming out of Canada do not rotate the same number of degrees as the pots made in Mexico. Michael, my pedal was not designed for any particular pickup. It works great with any pickup. Bill Lawrence builds great pickups and my pedal works great with all of Mr. Lawrence's pickups. My pedal is an active pedal, meaning it has a pre-amp. You can use it with another pre-amp, in your case the "Little Izzy". In theory pre-amping a pre-amp should be redundant. There are those that like the extra signal strength and swear the tone, sound and sustain is better with the stronger signal created by pre-amping a pre-amp. Most of the people who use my pedal do not use an additional pre-amp. Hope this information helps.