Tuning Sound Systems At Steel Jams

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 23 Feb 2003 7:40 pm

Sound Engineers etc: What are your methods for balancing the monitors for the instruments on stage? Placement of amps to keep the band from getting too loud and defeating the purpose of mains?
And tone: recreating the tone of the amps through the mains, mic placement, etc? Individual channel tone straight up, cutting channel highs to cut the highs from being accented by the horn drivers in the mains, etc?
Any tried and proven methods of recreating the tone and balance?
Dennis

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 24 Feb 2003 9:30 am

The only way to ensure that a Peavey or a Fender amp(for example) actually sounds like a Peavey or a Fender through the sound system is through experience of "knowing" what a Peavey or Fender amp actually sounds like to begin with. But, every device, whether it is the microphone, mixer, transducer, etc. can change the voicing of the final signal that is heard through the sound system.

The sound man's experience is that best that can be hoped for.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Feb 2003 9:53 am

Dennis, great question. With a good sound system your answer is simple. Place a good microphone in front of an amp and theoretically you should get the right sound coming out of the PA system. Sometimes a little eq on the soundboard can help tweak subtleties, but if the system is well balanced, what comes in is what comes out. With regards to adjusting for the the horns in the PA, they should be balanced with the rest of the system so that whether it's a drum mic, a vocal mic, a guitar mic, or whatever, the PA should give you a faithful representation of what went into the microphone.

For monitors, nothing is more important than a good monitor engineer for it's the onstage mic's that are mostly the source of feedback and artist complaints. It takes a competent engineer to eq monitors. If the monitors aren't perfect, then the band cant play well and then the music and the sound suffers. The general rule of thumb is to first get the monitors set real nice, then bring up the FOH (front of house mains) and see how that effects the stage sound. Then with the house and stage monitors both full on, do the final tweaking. Trust the musicinas on stage more than anyone. If they complain onstage, their word is ALMOST gold. If they can hear eachother and themselves and are happy with the stage mix, the rest is cake and you can be assured that they will play their best. Also when the stage sound is nice and balanced, it's amazing how easy the front-of-house mix then becomes. Most sound problems originate with bad monitors.

Brad Sarno
St. Louis, MO

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Feb 2003 9:58 am

And Mike is right. The transducers (mic's) also effect the sound. And also mic placement effects the sound. This is where your engineer's experience comes in handy. Every amp's speaker has a sweet spot or two. Mic placement is very key. The idea is to find the spot on a speaker where the sound thru the PA sounds just like the amp. Usually there's a spot on a speaker cone halfway between the edge and the center of the cone that will give you an accurate representation of the overall speaker's tone. With the right mic and being in that zone, it's hard to miss with guitar amps.

Brad Sarno
St. Louis

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 24 Feb 2003 10:08 am

There was a great sticker on the monitor console at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco...

"Friends Don't Let Friends Mix Monitors"...

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 24 Feb 2003 2:16 pm

"Most sound problems originate with bad monitors". I absolutely agree. I play five instruments in our band sometimes at large venues in front of alot of people. If the monitor mix is not good its hard to intonate fiddle and phrase steel. The singing starts going off also because you can't hear well enough to intonate your part. Monitor mix is crucial. We have three split mixes and our sound man (he's gets well paid) gets it tweaked BEFORE we do the mains. I like my monitor EQ on the treble side with good presence so I can hear the edges.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 24 February 2003 at 02:18 PM.]</p></FONT>

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 24 Feb 2003 2:48 pm

Great info guys. Keep it coming.
So far, the monitor system seems to be #1 starting point. Where should the monitor sound man be positioned?...Same location as the Main control man, to the side of the stage, back stage or another room? Should he wear headphones to set balance and tone or no headphones to be able to hear the room acoustics? Or maybe he should have a monitor speaker in front of him to hear what the band is hearing? Should we communicate with him via remote mic to and from the stage on a seperate small PA head?
This whole thread seems to be a crucial necessity in keeping all players and listening audience happy. Any input is appreciated.
Thanks
Dennis

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Feb 2003 9:13 pm

Dennis, the monitor man position depends on the PA system. Typically a club rig has the monitors controlled from the FOH (front of house) board along with the mains. A bigger concert setting or a premium club will likely have a monitor board on stage with a good view of each player. Either way works. Hopefully a band gets a soundcheck so there can be easy dialog between the musicians and the soundman. The monitor mixing process ideally gets dialed in before the show starts and only minor tweaks should be needed during the show. Any obvious points of feedback and funkiness have been addressed prior to the performance.

Kevin is quite right about the intonation issue. That's a huge problem when there are frequencies in the monitor mix that are feeding back or are approaching feedback. When this is the case the music now has to cut thru the ringing, and the ringing will undoubtedly not be in the key of the song so the stage gets loud and cacophonous. Even when the monitors aren't feeding back, the tonal balance has everything to do with musicians hearing pitch. Really it's all about being patient and EVERYONE on stage being silent while each monitor gets dialed in. Dont move on to the next monitor until things are balanced and the player is happy. The time and attention given to the monitor mix process is well worth it. And also, dont expect every PA system to have great sounding monitors. Usually you just gotta work with what's there and get them as good as you can. The players have to all hear eachother as well as themselves.

Brad Sarno
St. Louis, MO

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Feb 2003 6:52 pm

My only suggestion is...Don't let it get too loud! Remember...it's a "steel jam", and not a "battle of the bands".

Lefty Schrage · Post by **Lefty Schrage** » 26 Feb 2003 5:45 pm

At our recent jam, the on-stage monitor sound was greatly improved when our sound man bypassed the feedback eliminators. Are there any suggestions regarding how to accommodate needed adjustments in individual on-stage monitor mixes during a steel jam where a different set of musicians plays each half hour? ...Lefty