Why no tone and volume controls anymore?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 12 Feb 2003 6:49 am

I realize that pedal steel players all use a volume pedal nowadays, but it still would be handy to have these mounted on the guitar somewhere. They used to be - when and why were they removed? I have a volume pedal in my signal chain for regular guitar, but I wouldn't dream of trying to get by without the finger-actuated ones.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 12 Feb 2003 7:23 am

Steve Pittico (a great Tele Player) has removed all pots from main axe.
See http://www3.sympatico.ca/spiticco/guitar.htm

I wouldn't like it, but Steve can play circles around me.

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 12 Feb 2003 7:30 am

I had volume and tone controls added when I ordered my Carter. There have been several times when it came in very handy, I wouldn't ever order a new guitar again without them.

Kieth Hilton made me an outboard volume control that mounts to the leg for my other guitar. Very handy, I wish I would have had the forsight to ask him when he made this for me to put a tone control in it also.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Feb 2003 7:34 am

One of the reasons I like to play through a Goodrich Match Box is because it has an active tone and volume control on it. You think you have everything set up just the way you want it, but it sure is nice to be able to tweek things a little bit after you start your set.
Erv

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 12 Feb 2003 7:42 am

Tweek the sound on your amp, but let the sound of the steel come to there with as less resistance as possible. I can't see the problem for that. If you want different sounds, use pickups with a switch. Every pot eats a part of the sound, so keep your chords and the chain as chort and simple as possible. Just my 5 €cnts

JJ

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Click on the pic!

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 12 Feb 2003 7:52 am

At Dekley, we put a tone control on the right endplate with a bypass switch. I thought it was a cool idea, but no one seemed to like it, and some people even removed it. In fact in the 22 years I've played my D-12, I have rarely used it.

When I used to use a Goodrich MatchBox, I did use its tone control, but now I have my Stereo Steel amp right beside me and can tweak anything I want without moving.

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Jim Smith jimsmith94@attbi.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 (coming soon)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 12 Feb 2003 8:52 am

I have the Matchbox with the tone control on top and use it a lot. I like to cut it back about 1/3 and then set my amp from there. Then when I (try to) do a Mooney lick I turn the treble all the way on and it works great for me. If I need a more jazzy sound I just kick it back some more.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 12 Feb 2003 8:58 am

I have a tone control on my PP. Never used it. Now it won't even turn.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 12 Feb 2003 11:36 am

I use a Steel Driver II, best distortion I've found. But when I use it I cut the tone control on my Emmons back about 3/4. Buddy it's fat and if you want to get a little hairy add some pitch shift or phase to it and then it turns into a mini Moog. If you need that treble boost like Jerry likes just hit the switch that turns off the tone control and you've got it wide open like Hendrix. You can play any rock solo out there and hang in there with all of them six stringers. It's also a good way to get the beats out when you're tuning. I understand that anything between the guitar and the amp soaks up some signal but sometimes these effects enhance the overall sound and tone too.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Feb 2003 12:53 pm

I've added a volume pot to my Sierra Session. It comes in real handy when I switch to a very hot pickup. I really don't see the need for it on a guitar that doesn't have quick-change pickups, though.

I have a tone pot on my Williams, to back off the brightness of the 710's when I want less.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 12 Feb 2003 2:13 pm

This thread belongs in Electronics (gee, b0b, that was your line!), but when I have put a tone control on an instrument, I like to use a rotary switch that selects among several different capacitors, providing a variable roll-off frequency, rather than a pot and a single capacitor. The effect is much more interesting, to my ears, and I have always wondered why it is not more commonly done. Generally, though, unless you use your pinky for a "wah wah" effect (like I believe Don Helms does), I can't see why you would want to use a passive, signal sucker on the instrument in lieu of the more active tone shaping controls in an amp or effects box.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 12 Feb 2003 2:16 pm

"This thread belongs in Electronics"

OK

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 12 Feb 2003 3:03 pm

A note to Jim... When I had the Dekley it had a pre-drilled hole above the output jack, apparently to add a tone control later. I decided to put a volume control in there instead, I got the idea from Buddy Cage, who said it was like a secret weapon if you have to compete with lead guitar players on stage since they tend to get louder and louder as the gig goes on - and I too found it was very useful for that purpose.

Regards, Joe H.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 12 Feb 2003 3:21 pm

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Feb 2003 4:24 pm

Just about every single steeler I've ever seen plays within easy reach of his/her amp. (Such is not the case for a lot of lead players.) Also, 99% of all steelers use a volume pedal. Those facts make the idea of "extra" passive controls on the steel guitar seem kinda useless...to me, anyway!

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 12 Feb 2003 4:44 pm

I agree with Donny at least about the volume control. Johnny Cox has what I believe is a tone control on the right side of his triple neck he uses for the Boo Wah effect on the swing tunes. It sounds great and has a real purpose.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 Feb 2003 6:40 pm

I agree with you David,

In fact I am gutting a Goodrich match box and building the circuit board and the pots into my Excel padded top. So I can adjust the level and tone right from my guitar without having to turn around and do it at the amp. The match box has NO loss. It is the same as going from the guitar to the amp with even a boost. So it is even better.

I have to go two steps further. Because the match box converts the high impedance PU to a low impedance output (to greatly improve signal to noise ratio), it causes my Fender V/T pedal to loose its "boowah" affect.

To solve this problem, I am installing a DPDT switch along with the controls to bypass the match box while using the boowah affect. So I will have the best of both worlds.

In addition, I abhor batteries. I refuse to use them if there is any other way. So I have designed and am building a regulated 18 Volt power supply that will allow me to throw them dang 9 volters in the trash.

Finally, I will install a cut out switch to remove the tone pot; in case some "good ole boy" sits at my guitar and says,

"I always turn my tone circuit off. Ya git a lot mo power dat way!"

Yeah right! And God didn't make little green apples neither

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 February 2003 at 06:44 PM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 12 Feb 2003 9:47 pm

I play a six string Hawaiian steel and have always run my pots wide open. I went from the standard Goodrich, to the 9V Goodrich and then graduated to a Hilton . I always preferred adjusting the tone after the signal got to the amp.

A few of my Rickys came with their original pots ... which were useless (still got 'em though) I asked a couple of folks "in the know" and they all agreed that the pot itself adds capacitance (even if it's wide open) ... which takes away some of the highs (hey... I work hard for them highs

)

So I wired straight to the jack ... straight to the Hilton .. straight to the amp

I like the nice crisp sound and the little extra punch it gives it is useful. I liked it so much that I "hot wired" the others straight to the jack too. (One solder job back to original

)

Just my opinions.

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www.horseshoemagnets.com

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 14 Feb 2003 2:10 pm

On my D12 MSA's I used to buy from Reece, if you wanted there was a tone control, volume control, and a cutoff by pass switch, so it could go direct to the pickup.

Every guitar builder should be doing this today.

It was alway important to me. The tone control especially, to get that boo wah effect and talking guitar effect....al