Reel to Reel Speed Dilemma

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Oct 2002 9:21 am

I sure hope someone out here can help me with this tape speed problem.

Here's the deal. I have an early TEAC A-3340S
4-track reel to reel taperecorder. It's in excellent condition. It has 2 speeds [slow, fast]. It can take reels up to 10".

I recently came across a 5" tape of myself and a friend playing guitars [acoustics] and singing at an outside afternoon patio gig
at the long-gone Nauset Inn, Orleans, Cape Cod back in the summer of 1968.

A man from New York was vacationing down there at this time and brought a taperecorder
[a Wallensack, I think] to one of the afternoon gigs and taped a whole reel's side of us. He said he would take it home and send us some copies; which he did.

So I tried to listen to this tape this morning and even on the 'SLOW' setting on the TEAC the tape ran too fast [sounded like the "chipmunks"]. I'm guessing this old tape
was recorded at even a slower speed.

Where could I go with the tape that would have a slower running taperecorder - a Library? Police Station -they have slow running call-monitoring tapes?

Or is there some kind of trick I can do with the TEAC or the tape itself?

This is really a drag. I really want to hear
what I sounded like 34 years ago; and of course, whether I improved or digressed.

SOME BODY - Please help. Thanks y'all

ChipsAhoy

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 19 Oct 2002 9:37 am

Been there. No, you can't slow down the Teac.

I believe this semi-pro machine has a high speed is 15 ips and the low is 7 1/2 ips. Home recorders are 7 1/2 and 3 3/4. So you are probably stuck with a 3 3/4 ips tape. I would suggest buying an ebay cheapie (or asking here--good chance you can find a good deal on an old home recorder.) Ah, Wollensak.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Oct 2002 10:26 am

Thanks Jon. I had a feeling this was gonna be the answer.

Yeah, you remember Wallensacks? They weren't
very great on tone, but they were rugged, dependable, and recorded well. Actually, just the kind of taperecorders probably preferred as the tool of choice for sleuths
and James Bond types.

I'd like to bounce this tape onto the PC and burn a CD of it. It's gotta be breaking down by now, or will be starting real soon.

Thanks Jon for your in-put. I know what I
gotta do now.

CF

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 19 Oct 2002 12:12 pm

You could try a local recording studio - they can probably run you off a copy. However, there may be a cheaper way!

Make a PC copy at the "chipmunk" speed. Load it into your PC, get a time-limited free demo of Cool Edit or similar, and slow it down and pitch change it!

Or, put in on a CD and mail it to me. I have a small studio at home and would be happy to help - maybe I can do some audio restoration for you too to cut hiss etc.

By the way - this offer is open to anyone who has old cassettes or whatever. Put it on a CD (wave format or audio, I don't mind) and send it.

Email me off list if I can help.

Ian

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 19 Oct 2002 2:21 pm

Chip,
You might wanna try this. If you have a friend w/ a "consumer" type tape recorder, (i.e.,3¾/7½ i.p.s.),see if you can have him bring it over to your house. Hook 'em up, "play"(your machine) to "rec."(your friend's machine). Put your machine at "slow"(which is probably 7½ i.p.s.). Put your friend's machine at 7½ i.p.s. also. When you've finished recording,rewind the tape on your friend's machine,& play IT back at 3¾ i.p.s.
It probably won't be great quality but,at least,you'll be able to listen to it. A friend once told me,"Muddy water's better than no water at all". Hpe this works for ya.

------------------
<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 19 Oct 2002 2:25 pm

Smiley, "if" he has a friend with a machine that runs at the right speed, wouldn't it be easier to just play it at the correct speed on his friend's machine, then record it directly onto his own machine, cassette, or even directly into his computer?

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 19 Oct 2002 6:04 pm

I have two 3340s and I have to take the original tape, put it on one of them at the slow speed and copy it to another tape on the other 3340 at the fast speed. The copy will play at the right speed at the slow speed on the 3340. Sounds complicated but it works fine.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Oct 2002 6:20 pm

I love you guys. My problem right now
at about 10:00pm EST is that I'm getting in
after driving around this area lookin' for some steel guitar.

Well.....I gave up. It's pretty much common knowledge that you have to travel, trek far and wide to hear some great steel [the kind like Jim & Smiley play] around here.

And being a man of consumption, I decided at this time I have consumed enuff. Enuff to NOT be a moving target for smalltown po-leezemen.

So here I are.

Ian, I appreciate that very nice offer. I just may take you up on it.

In my travels today, someone mentioned going to this local radio station, ROCK 102, featuring morning knuckleheads, BAX & O'BRIEN...doing stuff ala Imus, but way, way, before Imus.....at least for me. I know Imus has been around as long as the big-bang theory, but he only appeared within the last year or so, for me.

A radio station should have all kinds of equipment to meet future and past challenges.

Anyway, everyone....thanks for your input.

I'm gonna sleep on this for a while [my bed -
not the tape]

ChipsAhoy

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 19 Oct 2002 11:15 pm

Jim Smith,
DAMN! Why didn't I think of that??

You're absolutely right! Musta been the "Polock" in me,comin' out.

------------------
<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 20 Oct 2002 4:00 am

7:54AM, EST, Thanks all you guys, Smiley -
you're too much (grin). So after 4
Excedrin and Maalox I'm up and movin'.

I have a full version of GOLDWAVE, and I've
been getting fairly competent with it. Ian's
idea might just work. [finding one of those older, smaller taperecorders is becoming like the needle in the haystack].

I've bounced some songs onto GOLDWAVE and have used that section about slowing things down [especially fast bluegrass stuff].

The only thing holding me back [and I have all the components] is making like a 20-25 foot patch cord with RCA jacks on both ends.
The PC is in one area and the TEAC is 20' away. I may just give this a quick shot.

Thanks, again, all, for your expertise and input.

ChipsAhoy[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 20 October 2002 at 05:02 AM.]

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 20 Oct 2002 6:41 pm

Chip,
I don't think that you would be able to play the tape on your 3340 even if you could slow it down...You have 4 channel heads on your machine, and the machine (old Wollensack) has only 2 channel heads and that's only if it was a stereo machine....I may be wrong, but I tried the same thing years ago, and the other machine that was used in my case, taped at the right speed, and it wouldn't play back on my 3340S.. !! I believe it was 7 1/2 IPS......Jim

Gil Berry · Post by **Gil Berry** » 20 Oct 2002 8:41 pm

I may be wrong about this, but I think the Wollensak actually was a stereo (2 channel) recorder, BUT it recorded its two tracks on the top half of the tape. You could turn the tape over and record another two-tracks on the same tape (opposite side) (and, of course, opposite edge). Thus the 4-track 3340 SHOULD be able to play a two-track recording (assuming right speed) but the rear channels would have to be muted or you would hear the other half of the tape (running backwards). If you have any way to play that tape on another recorder, record it at 15 ips on your 3340 and play back at 7-1/2.

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 21 Oct 2002 5:01 am

From my old recording studio days. You can play a two track tape on a four track machine. If the four track machine is only stereo, the left track will play fine but the right track will have 15db less gain because the right gap on the head hits a small percentage of a two track tape. If you have a 1/4 inch 4 track, then you can use tracks 1 and 4 and get a good playback.

Regards,

Mark T.

Rob Hamilton · Post by **Rob Hamilton** » 22 Oct 2002 8:42 am

First off, Wollensak, a 3M company, made tape recording machines, including 2-track and 4-track. 4-track stereo tape format was designed to be playback-compatible with older 2-track tapes. The tracks are interleaved so that track 1 and 3 are left and right for one direction, and 2 and 4 are right and left going the other direction. If your tape is indeed a 2-track tape (somewhat unlikely), it should playback correctly on a 4-track head, once you get the speed issue solved.

--Rob Hamilton

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 Oct 2002 4:00 pm

My apologies for being a bit absent, everyone. But on Sunday I got sidetracked and since then have not only NOT had a chance to make that 20' patch cord, but haven't been able to get back to the Forum,
until now.

The last latest post by James, Gil, Mtulbert
and Rob are very informative. I'm really learning some things, which I'm sure is basic
old analog taping knowledge, but hey - you're never too young to learn things.

The tape has sound coming out when only 2 channels are on [1,3] but sound also comes out when channels 2,4 are clicked on. But what Gil said about 2 channels sounding 'backwards', those would be 2,4.

I'm writing this now, without having gone back to check, but I think the flip side has
or sounds like it's empty, but might be 'backward' sounding. I'll have to recheck this.

In the meantime, I did send an email to our bass player, who is a PC programmer and does have a lot of older [tubes] electronic equipment, speakers, amps etc. and mentioned
that he does indeed have a Roberts 1/4 Track Stereo Recorder running at 33/4 and 71/2,
but that the recording side is not functional. But, I guess, playback works OK.

Thanks again, James, Gil, Mtulbert, and Rob
for your interesting incites. I'm gonna phone the bass player when he gets in, and check that recorder out. Right now, everything is still in a holding pattern.

ChipsAhoy[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 22 October 2002 at 05:02 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 23 Oct 2002 6:43 am

I vote for moving the TEAC temporarily closer to the PC, use a standard RCA cable.

Jim Florence · Post by **Jim Florence** » 23 Oct 2002 6:49 am

These guys are all correct, but forgetting one thing. 1 7/8 IPS tape speed was quite common in those days for sending letters overseas, etc. I have that capability somewhere in my archives, I have a bunch of old R=R recorders. If you don't get it figured out , email me and we'll figure out something.
Jim
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that most good tape recorders had 4 speeds, you would have to use different capstans. One for 15 & 7 1/2IPS speed and the other for 3 3/4 and 1 7/8 IPS[This message was edited by Jim Florence on 23 October 2002 at 07:56 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 23 Oct 2002 9:09 am

Jim, you are "right on", my Akai/Roberts reel-to-reel with the Cross-field head did everything necessary for a professionl sound on about anything.....anything from 1 7/8 to 15. www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 23 October 2002 at 10:11 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 23 Oct 2002 12:58 pm

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think TEAC made two models of this machine.
One was a low speed(3 3/4-7 1/2), and the other was high speed,(7 1/2 and 15). But I don't remember the model designation.

Larry Clark · Post by **Larry Clark** » 23 Oct 2002 2:01 pm

Stephen, If my memory serves me correctly,and sometimes it does,the 3340 which uses the 10 1/2" reels runs 15 & 7 1/2. The smaller version which was the 2340 uses a 7" max reel size ran at 7 1/2 & 3 3/4.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 23 Oct 2002 2:08 pm

Dave Van,
Another, yet, simpler solution.

Ghhheeezzz. Why didn't I think of that?

Everyone's been most helpful and knowledgeable here, and I appreciate all your posts. Thanks fellas.

ChipsAhoy

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 24 Oct 2002 11:17 pm

Coming up to the weekend, now.
I'll definitely be heading out to Sandy's
[our bassist, and resident PC nerd] with
this 34 year-old tape. And hook it up to his ROBERTS taperecorder. We'll see what happens.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep ya'll up-to-date.

ChipsAhoy