Recording Question

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Aug 2002 9:21 am

I have had good results mixing my clean PSG licks w/ acousic guitars, Fender Rhodes piano, clean electrc guitar and bass, but I did all of the backing tracks on a tune yesturday w. some serously gainy saturated electric guitar tones(think AC/DC Back in Black!). My question, is do any of you guys have any recoding/mixdown tips to make the clean PSG part stand out over some raunchy guitar tones? I have tried lowering the vloume on the guitars in the PSG break, but it really kills the energy of the tune. Any hints and help will be greatly appreciated.

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 6 Aug 2002 9:38 am

You could try a little trick called ducking, but it requires a compressor or plugin which has a key input. You put the comp across your guitar track and key it with the steel track. When your steel part begins to play, it will cause the compressor to squash your guitar track. You could also cut ,say 4KHz on the guitar and boost a bit of 4K on steel, and pan them so that they don't step on each others toes. You might want to compress the steel part too. If you can lop off 4db off the top, you can then add 4db to the bottom.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 6 Aug 2002 9:39 am

Often times distorted/dirty guitar tones are too bright and full of overtones. Perhaps try mixing using eq instead of just fader levels. Try cutting the highs on the dirty guitar. Also try cutting the deep lows of the steel. See if this makes a more balanced mix. Try to avoid too much boosting of highs. It's often safer to cut what's too bright instead of boosting highs to compete with another bright track.

Brad Sarno

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Aug 2002 10:17 am

Cool, I will try using a plugin to compress the dirty guit. As for messing w/ the EQ on the guitars, I really love the way they sound and am hesitant to mess w/ em.

Here is my signal path, maybe that will spawn some more suggestions:

->prnctn reverb->sm57

PSG->auto swell->VP->blue tube->split

->alesis 3630->direct

Thanks again for the help. I will dig in at the studio tonight, and let ya know how it turns out!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 6 Aug 2002 11:18 am

(think AC/DC Back in Black!)

I think the steel was kinda covered up on that track, too.

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 6 Aug 2002 12:04 pm

Matt, try mixing the steel without much reverb. A lot of verb tends to put the steel in the background.

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Aug 2002 12:14 pm

LOL!!!

Michael, if Angus Young did ever play PSG, 2 things would be certain:

1. He would be strictly an A/B pedal player

2. It would deffinately rock!!!!!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 6 Aug 2002 2:23 pm

I would avoid compressing the dirty guitar. That may work against you. Compressing the steel just a tad may help though. Be careful that the dirty guitar isn't too heavy in the 2kHz-5kHz range. If you us an EQ to dip around there, it may clear out room for other things.

Brad Sarno

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 6 Aug 2002 7:01 pm

I find note choice and phrasing to be an important issue in that situation.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 06 August 2002 at 08:11 PM.]

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 7 Aug 2002 1:55 am

A little "chorus" on the steel should do the trick.
Baz http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/html/basil_bio.html

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Steel players do it without fretting

http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 7 Aug 2002 11:19 am

OK! I EQed the mids lower on the dirty guitars. It helped the PSG stand out better, but I still wasnt completely happy. Heres what did it. I retracked the PSG part and on the miked track I turned off the amps reverb and cranked that little 1x10 princeton up so it started to break up a tiny bit. It turns out that I wasnt driving the tubes and speaker hard enough, and the miked signal was a little bit anemic/sterile sounding. It still sounds pretty clean, but the extra oomph of the speakers pushing more air helped itr stand out better.

Thanks guys!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 7 Aug 2002 5:59 pm

From my experience mixing, these are my recommendations.

First, don't try compressing the distorted guitar(s). The guitar is already being compressed by the distortion effect. it really shouldn't accomplish anything but possibly make it worse.

Second, compress the pedal steel track. It probably has enough dynamics that it only punches through the distortion guitar occasionally. How much you need to compress it is determined by the other guitar tracks. If it's still not coming above the guitar enough, then compress it until you can get it to ride above the distorted guitar soup.

Third, you might need to pull some of the mids(800-4kHz) out of the distorted guitar to give a little more room for definition of the pedal steel.

Between those two you should be able to get the pedal steel where you need it in the mix.