Microphonic pickup?

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 16 Jul 2002 11:50 am

I'm wondering whether or not my pick-up has gone microphonic. I've heard of this, but I'm not sure of the symtoms, but the steel seems all alive. I'ts hard to do some of the slides without bar noise or other string sounds that I don't want to hear. I can also hear the pedals and knee levers through the amp. without a lot of volume. I don't have any problems on my other steel at all, so I don't really think it's my playing. Any suggestions out there? Do I need a new pick-up. The guitar is a '72 P/P Emmons. Thanks......Carson

jerry wallace · Post by **jerry wallace** » 16 Jul 2002 12:27 pm

Carson, I would try checking the pickup coil with an Ohmmeter..If you dont have one, you probably know someone who does..This should tell you if the coil is intact..

It should be somewhere between 16K and 18K ohms.

While there are other things that can cause microphonics , this would be my recommendation as the best place to start looking for your problem.

------------------
Jerry Wallace-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 16 Jul 2002 3:26 pm

Jerry, thanks for the reply. I just checked it out and got a reading of 16.5 on the tester. I guess there must be something else wrong.......Carson

jerry wallace · Post by **jerry wallace** » 16 Jul 2002 4:38 pm

Carson,the 16.5K is about right..So your coil is intact..Loose windings can also cause microphonics..But there is no way I know of to check for this other than going inside of the pickup..
Is this a problem that just started suddenly or is this Steel one you just aquired?

------------------
Jerry Wallace-2001 Zum: D-10,8+6, "98 Zum: D-10,8+8,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com

[This message was edited by jerry wallace on 16 July 2002 at 05:39 PM.]

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 16 Jul 2002 6:03 pm

Jerry, I've had the guitar for a long time. It's one of the fatback models and has a great sound. This problem seems to have come on gradually. It seems to me I read somewhere that they could be dipped in something and it would cure them...Anyone ever heard of this?.......Carson

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 16 Jul 2002 6:06 pm

I have heard they dip them in some kind of wax and that helps a lot......al

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 Jul 2002 7:22 pm

Some of the old Gibson humbuckers were potted in wax, but you had to be real careful, if you got the wax too hot, the plastic bobbin melted, too! It sounds like your pickup is becoming microphonic, this happens sometimes. This sounds dumb, but it's a good little test--Get close to the pickup, and holler in it.(Hey, I told you it sounded dumb!) If you can hear yourself through the amp, your pickup is microphonic. The DC resistance won't change, the pickup just gets the nasties. Hope this'll help.
God bless

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 17 Jul 2002 4:25 am

Waxing the pickups is called "Potting".
It's very common.
A good standard electric guitar shop or builder should be able to do it for around $30.

Good info is here: http://www.guitarnuts.com/technical/electrical/

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 17 Jul 2002 4:32 am

Thanks everyone for the replies. Stephen, yes I can hear myself very plainly through the amp when I holler into the pickup Joey, I'm going to check out that site......Thanks a lot.......Carson

Jason Lollar · Post by **Jason Lollar** » 17 Jul 2002 6:00 pm

Emmons are nice pickups but they did a poor job controlling the tension on the wire, loose windings= microphonics. Emmons have huge coils plenty of opprotunity for microphonics to occur, pot it in wax but be careful to keep the temp to 140-150 or you can melt the plastic they use for the top and bottom of the coil.
Send it to me, Tipka or Gerry and have it done, its cheap.

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 18 Jul 2002 8:15 am

80/20 mix of parrafin/beeswax...simmer(warm) 1 1/2 to 2 hours, remove(wiping excess) and let cool. Serve at room temperature. Delicious!
Don't forget to remove electrical tape before braising. Serves thousands.[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 18 July 2002 at 09:16 AM.]

Jason Lollar · Post by **Jason Lollar** » 18 Jul 2002 9:08 am

The above usually works but the plates on the Emmons are made of laminated pickgaurd material which is kind of unusual. I have found if it sits in 140 degree wax for more than 4 minutes the plates can start to warp so I have a vacuum potter that can remove all the air before the time is up. Most pickups can withstand 140 degrees for long periods of time.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 20 Jul 2002 4:40 am

Thanks for all the responses guys!

Though this wasn't my post I learned a lot.
That 140 Degree limit is very valuable info.

I'm glad to be the moderator here, due to this type of co-operation.

I was just browsing the bickering in other areas and realized how lucky we are in the ELECTRONICS area. [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 20 July 2002 at 03:59 PM.]

Jason Lollar · Post by **Jason Lollar** » 20 Jul 2002 2:02 pm

Cool, we have it all here!
If its a fiberboard bobbin like a stingmaster pickup you can cook it to death, 180 wont hurt it unless you are heating one side of it with a heat lamp then it will warp. Done that and you know I had to find that time and heat limit on the Emmons somehow.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 22 Jul 2002 7:23 am

People who specialize in this operation do it under a vacuum. That way, there are no voids (air pockets) and the encapsulation is always 100% effective.

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 23 Jul 2002 5:15 pm

Well, I got the pickup all potted and it works great. The guitar even sounds a lot better. Note separation is a lot better and it's so much easier to play now. It even seems to sound cleaner. It wasn't a big job at all, but I was extremely careful with the pickup and I kept the temperature of the wax 150-155 degrees. I got some bees wax from a bee-keeper friend of mine to mix with other wax. I would like to thank everyone for their advice on this, it certainly was a great help.......Carson

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 24 Jul 2002 7:01 am

Carson, I was very interested in your comments and experience since potting your pickup. The pickups I have on my steel are unpotted. I have been having a terrible problem with clarity on the first 5 strings on my E-9th neck and the same on the first two stings on the C-6th neck. There are naturally some instances where you don't block your strings after picking and when I don't block there is a terrible resonance and the sounds of the strings seem to overide each other and distort the clean sound that was there when I first got the steel. The problem has grown worse over time. It also seems that the longer I play the sound gets progressively worse. I have tried different speakers and amplifier combinations and even eliminated everything between the steel and the amplifier, so I know that the problem exists with the steel. All I have left to blame is the pickups. Is it your opinion that what I am experiencing is similar to your problem, and might potting cure my problem? Any input from anyone would be appreciated.
Bob Thomas

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 24 Jul 2002 1:27 pm

Bob,
Potting, if properly done, will not hurt your pickups. I'd try it.

Carson Leighton · Post by **Carson Leighton** » 24 Jul 2002 2:02 pm

Robert, the symtoms that you have with your steel sound about the same as mine were before I potted the pickup. It was getting hard to block strings I didn't want to hear and there was just a lot of noise in general. It was getting so that if I even touched a pedal, I could hear it through the amp. Try getting real close to the pickup and yelling, with your amp turned up to the amount of volume you would use in your living room. You shouldn't be able to hear yourself. I could before potting the pickup, but I can't now. If your guitar has these symtoms, then maybe should do what I done. As Joey said, I don't think it will hurt anything .....Regards, Carson [This message was edited by Carson Leighton on 24 July 2002 at 03:07 PM.]

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 24 Jul 2002 2:08 pm

A new set of Bill Lawrence pickups will cure that problem forever. In this day and age, there is no reason to put up with old pickup trouble, microphonics, shorts, bad wire, bad winding, cheap materials, poor quality slugs and all that junk. And it is not a huge investment.....just the best you'll make besides the guitar itself.

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 24 Jul 2002 4:18 pm

One has to be careful giving advice. I have had pickups which were ruined by potting. Perhaps those who recommend it will guarantee the outcome? It does reduce the microphonic noise, but is a band-aid for the problem, rather than a solution.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 24 Jul 2002 4:41 pm

Could you describe how they were ruined, Buck?
Did they warp or ???

I again reccomend the info here: http://www.guitarnuts.com/technical/electrical/ for anyone wondering about the need for potting.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 24 Jul 2002 5:48 pm

Jeff, I couldn't agree with you more. We've talked about melting bobbins, etc., and potting pickups IS just a bandaid, not a cure. I've seen more pickups ruined than rescued this way. It's easy to melt the insulation on the pickup winding, too. So nowadays, when you can get new pickups that sound like anything, and your amp can make it sound like anything else, then get a couple of new pickups, and get back to pickin'!

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 25 Jul 2002 2:19 pm

I should have been clearer in my response. I had a guitar with highly microphonic pickups potted. This was many years ago and the tone was ruined. They did not warp, they did in fact stop feeding back, but the tone was altered significantly. I concluded that microphonics are not all bad, and that it is better to play it safe and replace pickups, rather than altering a pickup in an irreversable fashion. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 26 Jul 2002 4:32 am

No Problem, Buck. I'm just trying to learn here from other's experiences.

What I gather form this thread is:
If the pickup is so microphonic that it's a throw-away, Pot It. It might solve your problem. But, be prepared to purchase new pickups becaue it might not.