Expensive pickups into cheap guitar

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 5 Aug 2001 5:12 am

A while ago I started a bit of a discussion about fitting my cheap Fender copy lap steel with better pickups. I've now done it. Two Bill Lawrence Strat-types. The pickups are more powerful, cleaner, and low-noise - I'm convinced I'm getting the best possible out of this guitar. But there's still something about the tone I don't like. Many of you pointed out that the sound is a product of the pickups, the wood and hardware of the guitar, the strings, bar, picks, cables, pedal, amp and of course THE PLAYER. But one thing which I'm now convinced plays a very large part is the position of the pickup along the string length.
For example, I've always hated the sound of the middle pickup on a Strat, and never found a use for it ON ITS OWN. The middle switch position on my Strat has been re-wired to give me neck and bridge together, something like a middle-position Tele sound.
So, I may have to find the lap steel that already has the tone I have in my head...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Aug 2001 5:28 am

Tony...if someone had told you that there's not nearly as much difference in pickups as some people claim, you'd never have believed them. I guess now you know!

Most of the sound is in the body. The type of wood, the way it's cut, its age, its shape, and where it's cut from the tree all play a part in the sound. So does the finish. You might try changing the bridge, or the nut of the guitar, as this can change the sound somewhat, too.

But, by and large, it's either "in there"...or it's not.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 5 Aug 2001 3:15 pm

Tony,

I agree with you, that the positioning of the pickup along the string length is very important. The closer the pickup is to the bridge, the more high and thin,___further away, the more mellow the tone.

As a "rule of thumb" these things work for me:

Heavier guage strings.

Very dense metal nut and bridge (hard steel) anchored firmly to the body of the guitar.

All pots wide open and set everything from the amp.

No volume pedal for lap steel.

Position the pickup for your taste.

Rick

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 6 Aug 2001 2:40 am

Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Like Donny said its a combination of a lot of things, put good pickups on a good body, then you have something.

You can go overboard on pickups and get into the high output models, which have no purpose except to overdrive an amp, then there is very little tone and lots of distortion.

It all depends on what you are trying to get out of a guitar. I put Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounders in my Tele(solid Oak body) and thought I wanted Duncan Hot rails pickups, I put them in and they came out the next day, Too hot and short on tone. The quarter pounders are back in and will stay.

I agree with you about the Middle Pickup on a Strat, I hate that Sound too.

------------------
John

Dave Seddon · Post by **Dave Seddon** » 6 Aug 2001 11:43 am

Perhaps someone can tell me then, Why it is that so many "Steels," pedal and none pedal, are made of so many different materials some lacquered, some mica, some with Lawrence, some with George L, and other pickups, allsorts of combinations, yet with your eyes shut you would be hard pushed to tell which was which, especially with the electronic wizard'ry around today, amp/speaker simulators etc. Surely even a "COPY" instrument can be made to sound as near as damn it to the real thing. If this is not the case why do Peavey bother putting Lloyd Green and other Steel Players set up's on the Pro-Fex. Surely these are going to be useless, unless you have the identical instrument to them, (and even then you have to learn to play like them.) Well That's my 2 bob's worth.
Cheers for now,
Dave.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Aug 2001 12:32 pm

There are steels that have a characteristic sound, no matter what pickup is in them and they are readily identified. The Emmons is one that comes to mind. Many of the Sho-Buds can also be identified by just listening. Franklin has an identifiable sound. However many of the others have a generic sound and I guess the builder could identify his own brand but that's about all.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Aug 2001 2:21 pm

Dave, I suspect Peavey uses famous artist's presets for two reasons. First, it probably helps to sell the product. And second, it could be that some players think (big laugh here!) that with Lloyd's settings...they too will sound just like Lloyd.

Modelling devices give the ability to change a whole bunch of settings very quickly. Other than that, they have no capabilities over standard amp controls, IMHO.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 06 August 2001 at 03:24 PM.]</p></FONT>