That Sound

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 6 Mar 2001 5:32 am

For a long time I have been reading on here about this amp and this mod and this effect and this guitar and do I need tubes or solid state and I sit back and laugh. As soon as one of you talks about something different, a whole bunch others are wanting information so they can get one too. One device that comes to mind was the Pro-Fex. Everybody had to have one. You could sound just like all your heroes with one little card. So some of you rushed right out and bought one. Then the majority only ever used maybe four settings. One factory sound for each neck and then YOUR custom sound you devised. Did it ever occur that the sounds you guys were emulating were created by the masters without a Pro-Fex. But since one player got one like a bunch of lemings everyone had to have one. Just like the Matchbox and every other little toy. Don't get me wrong I have sometoys myself. I would bet that I could clip a non-functioning box to my steel leg and if enough players saw it they would have to get one. Same goes for the mods. If you guys want a tube like sound then spend the money and get a tube amp. No company in the world makes solid state sound like tubes. No matter what they say. I guess some will have to wait until they see Emmons with a Fender before they go buy one. I can't keep up with all the changes so I gave up trying. I plug my Emmons into my Goodrich pedal, and go straight to my amp and play. If it was good enough for Jimmy Day it's good enough for me.

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Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 6 Mar 2001 5:40 am

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 6 Mar 2001 5:47 am

AMEN!

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 6 Mar 2001 7:10 am

Craig - I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say, but I also kind of come back to the concept of 'to each, his own'.

I don't own a PFII, but I can see where for some folks - particularly folks just starting out - going this route might give them a starting point and some examples of sounds that they might like to emulate later on their own. Ultimately, the mastery of this thing does indeed rest in the nothing more than your steel, your amp, and your hands, but I guess different folks like to go different routes along the way. Nothing wrong with that, either....

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 6 Mar 2001 7:18 am

I didn't know that Jimmy Day played an Emmons.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by John Lacey on 06 March 2001 at 07:19 AM.]</p></FONT>

Larry Hendrickson · Post by **Larry Hendrickson** » 6 Mar 2001 7:56 am

Craig, I've never heard you play or even really heard of you before. And I don't think I would run out and buy any kind of device you were using just because you have it clamped on your guitar no matter what you sounded like. I know what what tone I want and I can get it with the little amount of equipment I use. As far as the mods are concerned, when I put the Peavey mod in my Nashville 400 it made a 100% improvement in the sound. Better string separation, no more nasally honking sound, etc. I'll probably buy the mod for my Session 500 now that Peavey has one available. I don't just run amuck and buy whatever is the current fad like you suggest we all do. I think you owe some of the forum members an apology for for your obvious arrogance. Let me know where you are playing and I'll come and listen then I'll know better to whom I'm talking to. LH

PLAYSTEEL9 · Post by **PLAYSTEEL9** » 6 Mar 2001 12:11 pm

I agree on the lemmings effect, BUT, i now use a profex11 and do so along with a steel driver2 and a match bro so i can make all kinds of diffrent sounds, so i cn keep a five night a week job and not go stale
we play anything from ol' hank to creed, and i have to fill the parts.
jus t my two cents worth, like somebody said, to eack his own.
wayne

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Those that make music, pray twice.

Quesney Gibbs · Post by **Quesney Gibbs** » 6 Mar 2001 3:19 pm

Why would anyone want to sound like anyone else? The first chair is taken by Emmons and his sound is unique. IMHO be yourself. I don't try to copy anyone else because I don't have the ability. But I work all the time anyway. I have been told that people like what I play (must be tone deaf) so what you hear is what you get. I use no effects at all. Just me, my MSA and my 400.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 6 Mar 2001 4:39 pm

Okay guys, To John, Jimmy didn't play an Emmons but what I was trying to say was that if the guitar to the pedal to the amp was good enough for him I could live with it. Larry it is not arrogance and I didn't say EVERYONE. I said some. It just tickles me to see it go on. What prompted this was the posting about putting a mod in a brand new session 1000. I also said that I have some toys too, but, I don't use them anymore. Wasn't pointing fingers,just making an observation. Also I was trying to make a point. The point being that steel playing isn't an issue of the one with the most toys wins. It's playing from the heart no matter what you are playing. I just think SOME people get too involved in the toys and miss the beauty of the instrument. I am not trying to say I am above any of you, cause Lord knows that's not so. I have pulled my hair out to play things just like anyone else. But I also know SOME people that think they have to have every effect in the world to play. I am just wanting all of us not to forget the beauty of the way a plain old steel guitar sounds. I should also say that I too am putting a mod in my Nashville 400. Not because everyone is doing it, but because I am trying to get some of the spark back it once had. It is 17 years old and doesn't bark like it used too. I play my 65 Twin a lot more than the 400. If I want to use it though at least I won't have to wonder if it will make it. OK?

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Robert · Post by **Robert** » 6 Mar 2001 6:28 pm

Craig:
Sounds like Larry wanted to rumble. I think most people would have taken no offense at your post. Maybe you should check with Larry next time you have something to say just to make sure it's OK with Larry. It's just guitars and music, Lawrence. Lighten up.

Rob

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 7 Mar 2001 5:56 am

Fact is, Jimmy Day did indeed play an Emmons...at least once anyway. There's a picture of him behind one on Clay Blaker's website!

David Weaver · Post by **David Weaver** » 7 Mar 2001 8:22 am

Craig...

Can't argue with anything you say.

Remember though...many of us are hobby players. I've got enough junk to play Yankee Stadium, yet it's probably a ways off that before I even play in a band.

A hobby doesn't have to make sense. It's there to entertain and provide joy to the participants. With 3,000 participants on this forum, you can bet that many if not most of us are underskilled hobbyists that are in it for the fun. Don't be too hard on us.

I remember years ago, I took up swimming laps. I had a waterproof tape player that I plugged into my ear and swam with it. I swam every day religiously. One day some guy in the next lane who I never met just took off on me for being ridiculous for swimming with a tape player. He laughed at me and said "what next..a TV??!"

I never understood his point. I wasn't bothering him. Why did he feel he needed to give me reading out? I swam for years and as my skill and interest changed, I dropped the tape stuff and started doing the serious workouts. But I still think the tape player stuff got me in the pool on days I might not have swam.

You're right. Playing with toys is no substitute for skill...but for many of us, it's part of the learning and part of the fun of the hobby.

Keep pickin'

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Sho-Bud Pro II Custom, Sierra Artist S-10, Fessenden S-10, Session 2000

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 7 Mar 2001 4:46 pm

I understand both sides of the issue.

I bought an Evans amp strictly based on what I read about them on The Steel Guitar Forum. I couldn't be happier with it.

I am a keyboard player also and I bought a Kurzweil K2500S keyboard because that's what the big boys use... and there again ... I couldn't be happier. Good advise is good!

There is something to be said about reading genuine reports of gear (not ads) from many different users of any product.

I also was a "purist" for years .... I used no "gimmicks" at all ... but you know what? I discovered that some of them are actually very useful and can make my "work" more fun.

If a guy is plowing his field and he's in a nice air-conditioned cab .... some other farmer may look at him and say "look at that guy, that ain't farming" .... I say ... farming is farming!

An old quote;

You can steal a doctor's bag
That doesn't make you a doctor
If a doctor's bag is stolen
He is no less of a doctor

(My modification)

You can buy a rig like Buddy Emmons
That doesn't make you Buddy Emmons
If Buddy Emmons plays anybody elses rig
He still sounds like Buddy Emmons

These is an old fable called "His Masters Touch" and it goes like this...

A man is auctioning off a violin before many people. Nobody will bid on it. An old man says "Can I see that violin?" The auctioneer hands the man the violin and he plays beautiful music on it. The next thing you know, everybody is bidding on it. It sells for more money than anything else auctioned that day.

Many players on this forum have "His Masters Touch" .... it is an elusive gift.

The moral of the story... Live and let live, try to become "The elusive player" yourself. If you have a certain sound in your head and can afford to go after it and have fun at the same time.... go for it.

This Steel Guitar is the greatest thing on the web! Thanks Bob!

Danny Bates

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 7 Mar 2001 5:06 pm

Danny what I was referring to was what I see when someone talks on the forum about getting something new and 20 posters just got to know how to get one. I grew tired a few years back of trying to keep up with the Jones. Everytime I turn around there is something new if you watch,people just seem to drift to them. In the last ten years there have been for example: Matchboxes, Matchbro's, Steel Riders, Profex's, Tubefex's, Nashville 500's, Nashville 400, Nashville 1000's, Steels with no cabinet drop,Sustain Boxes, Volume Pedals of different brands and the list goes on and on. To keep up with the state of the art I would have to work 100 hours a week to support me and my guitar, 'cause I am not related to Donald Trump. It was just an observation,but I have seen guys trade guitars 3 or 4 times and go thru amps I would have died to have. This post is not intended to offend anyone. It is just what I see.If I have I am sorry but that's how I see it.

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Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 8 Mar 2001 4:43 am

John;

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Craig Allen · Post by **Craig Allen** » 8 Mar 2001 9:29 am

Finally, someone makes sence.
When I was learning to play Tele, a long time ago, I was impressed by a fella that played an old Tele through a silvertone amp. He had no effects at all, save for the AceTone reverb. This cat could sound like anybody he wanted. Buz Evans played for Dick Curless at the time, and he had no effects, except for 'verb, either. Then I learned from a lot of cats that effects are kool if you know how to use them for enhancement, not a crutch.
One has to know what they are doing before the effects stop sounding like effects.

I've always known for example that you have to play the Amp, as well as the guitar. You see, even the amp is an effect.

I've heard Bobby Bowman lately, and he is now playing without effects.

The best effects on the planet won't cover up bad playing.

With respect to steel, good tone is in the hands. If one quits tweaking toys, and spends that time on playing the instrument, they will notice a change for the best.

I've noticed throught the years that people use effects to cover up mistakes, and poor playing. It won't work that way. Sorry.

I have the Peavy Mod in my amp, but that's because Peavy made it, and installed it, and I use a Roland delay. But I use only one or two delay settings ost of the time, and they are faint. Delay won't help an instrument with no sustain. Either the instrument has sustain, or it doesn't.

Oh well, back to my wakeup coffee.

Bon Chance

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 13 Mar 2001 7:18 pm

I've been involved with the PSG since 1975, and in my opinion, everytime a professional player or a professional teacher comes up with a new device or a new gimmick, we all think that we need it.It will make us sound like a "pro".I even remember someone selling specially made chrome plated finger picks. They sold like hotcakes to a few people who thought they had found the answer to the ultimate quest.But, guess what. If you don't have it in your hands, feet, knees,head, and especially your heart, you will never attain the elusive sound you are chasing.