tuning the 4th string for the c pedal

[Judith Vivian]

I just got a Mullen 4/5 and I can't get my 4th string to quite come to pitch when using the c pedal. It's just flat enough to drive me nuts when in a chord. Any help with this would be great.
Thanks
Duffy

[Fred Treece]

Sounds like it could be “overtuning”. The easiest fix to try is backing the 4th string tuning nut all the way until the C pedal has no effect on the string, and then start bringing the pedaled string back up to pitch. Make sure the open string is tuned to pitch first. If that doesn’t work, try changing the string. If that doesn’t work, you’ll need advice I can’t give you. Good luck.

[Judith Vivian]

Thanks for the help. I'll absolutly give it a try.

[Tucker Jackson]

I just ran into the same problem helping a new steeler with his Mullen.

After checking for overtuning, I was about to increase the leverage at the bellcrank when I noticed that the pedal rod was not correctly seated where it attaches to the undercarriage. The very end of the hook at the end of the rod was propped up on the lip of the hole. It was supposed to pass through that hole, but it wasn't.

Solution: seat the pedal rod correctly.

[Judith Vivian]

Thanks, I took your advise and checked.

[Jon Jaffe]

I think your problem is not with the tuning nuts, but with the pedal stop. The tuning nut, the bell crank position, and the pedal stop influence the string finger's travel. If you are not bringing the string up to pitch, try increasing the pedal's travel. I found this picture on the forum. It's not a Mullen. It's a Sho-Bud, but most guitars have similar adjustments. I have annotated the picture to show the pedal's travel. If you increase the travel, it will pull to a higher pitch. Do not adjust it too far because the pedal will seem spongy.

Pedal Stop.jpg

[Bobby D. Jones]

Has the guitars C pedal 4th string tuned up proper before? Then the problem arose.
When did this problem start with 4th string?

If you just changed strings, And problem arose.
Check the diameter of the string. In most E9th sets, The 4th string is .014 diameter. If the string is smaller, It will have to stretch farther to tune E to F#. That would cause this problem.

On the Mullen PRP I have.
The C pedal 4th string, The pull rod is in 3rd hole down from the axle in the changer, The rod is in the 5th hole down from cross shaft in the bell crank.

Good luck on the 4th string tuning, Happy Steelin.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Maybe what Jon said. Don't know if it was done on your guitar, but this can happen when the guitar is changed over from Day to Emmons or v v. In that case, the pedal needs more travel for the E to F# change where it was not an issue there with the opposite set up.

BTW, same idea and function as the 'bud pictured but the Mullen pedal pull is just a tad different. The pedal stop is adjusted with the set screw pictured here in green.
Right click on the photo, open image in new tab, click on that tab, then click on + to enlarge photo. [Ignore red highlight]

mul 2629.JPG

[Fred Treece]

Couple of questions-
When adjusting the C pedal stop, is it necessary to detune the pull on the affected string first?

Why does the pedal stop only cause the E string to stay flat when engaging the C pedal and not the B string? Gauge difference?

[Judith Vivian]

Thanks for all the help guys. It did turn out to be an overtuning problem. I think I've fixed the problem.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Good deal. Glad you got it sorted. Good advice from Fred.

Fred, in re: detuning the string before adjusting the pedal stop, the overtuning troubleshooting should be performed first as you suggest, but that's all. You'd need the tension in order to determine the amount of travel needed as you adjust the stop.
That is, if I'm understanding your question correctly.

Concerning your second question, I'm not tech enough to answer properly, all I can say is that with every guitar with a factory setup where I have swapped the Day to Emmons pedals position or v/v, I have always had to give the new C pedal position more travel.

[Fred Treece]

Good deal, Judith.

Thanks, Jerry. So many things about steel guitar mechanics and physics will forever be a mystery to me. I have no experience on anything but my own instruments, but just in that little world I can see several obvious differences and many more subtle ways in how things are supposed to operate.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Its another 1 of those rules of physics things.
The A pedal is only pulling 5th .017 and 10th (With .018 core) from B to C#.
The C pedal is pulling 5th .017 B to C#.
And the 4th .014 from E to F#. The smaller diameter is being pulled farther, Because of its diameter. And being raised a full note higher too. Takes much more travel to tune raise.

When reversing pedals A & C on a guitar, That tunes proper, The pull rod needs to be moved,
To the same hole in changer and bell crank, they were in, In their original position.

Since I play Day, I get lots of practice changing, The B&C pedals, And F&D knee levers. On guitars I buy or sell.

[Fred Treece]

Thanks for that explanation, Bobby.

[Rich Ertelt]

Thanks for all the help guys. It did turn out to be an overtuning problem. I think I've fixed the problem.

I got a new Discovery back in Sept. Same issue. I just adjusted the little allen screw to get more pedal travel and it fixed it.