Tune Down From E9 to D9

[Jerry Overstreet]

I'm considering dropping the E9 tuning on my Fender Artist one whole step to D9 for my own reasons. There is no problem with string breakage on it, it's just that I want to experiment with a lower voicing.

Another reason is open fret with pedals down, it puts the tuning to G for a resonator common tuning with my reso sims.

Thoughts? How about string gauges? Need to go heavier for a whole step or is the E set OK? Experiences?

I think I can get by with the same set for a half step drop, not sure about a whole.

Yes, I know about tension/gauge calculators but I'm a bit lazy and thought perhaps at least one of you has done this and would be willing to share your experiences.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Lots of D13 users on here which of course has all of D9 open. Check out my string gauges here:

https://www.gregcutshaw.com/D13%20Coped ... ounds.html

[David Higginbotham]

Jerry, my friend. You'll see some challenges using the same gauges. Particularly on smaller strings and of course it'll require some travel adjustments. But the tone and sustain accomplishes something E9th doesn't and it's tough to explain. I've tuned that way a number of times over the years when I've played a S-10 for exactly what you mention. Open gives a major G which we use almost exclusively on Cajun music. Marty Broussard & Danny Cormier have been playing a S-10 for a few years now and able to get their G tuning within the E9th with extra pedals. I haven't played either so maybe they'll chime in.

We have a player here named Paul Fruge who's tuned D9th since I was young and long before I ever played steel and he's still doing it to this day. You wouldn't know it listening or watching other than holding both pedals. I sat in on his Pedalmaster in my early days of playing and it was challenging to say the least. But this guy is an amazing Cajun steel player and vocalist.

D13th was mentioned and we had a player years back named Danny Simon who tuned D13th and again...he could play open G like a pro and had a phenomenal style that no one has been able to copy since. He passed way too young at only 50 but left his mark on everyone with amazement at his skill.

Dave

[Jerry Overstreet]

Thanks guys. It's just something I'm considering. If it involves a lot of travel adjustments down under, I may decide not to do it.

I've been mechanicing on these beasts for many years, so that's not the issue. My biggest challenge anymore is picking up the D10 and sitting it on the bench. Any operations that require a lot of ups an downs leaves me with some problems with my wrecked back. I'm nearly to the point that I won't be able to handle them much longer. MOF, it's still in the case from the mid Dec. christmas party!

When I played Unis along with D10s, I was able to detune the C neck down a half step to B no problem, but that's as low as I dropped it. A whole drop for the E9 with different pulls etc. are different so that may not be realistic using the same set.

I'll think it over and see what I feel like doing later on, but I like the idea. Thanks.

[John Hyland]

Tuning down AND re-gauged strings would make pedal action a lot easier. But either action would require resetting all of the movements. That said you might get close by just reducing the pedal and lever throw distances. You can always try a couple of strings to see where you land.

[Dennis Montgomery]

I dropped from 12 string Extended E9 to Extended D9 a few months into my pedal steel journey and have never gone back

At first I just loosened the existing string gauges to test it out for a couple days, but soon replaced everything with a thicker gauge set recommended by b0b for a 12 string D9. Once I got the correct gauges on there I just loved the feel and sound of the guitar tuned to D9. I always wanted as light a touch to the pedals and knees as possible and could really fell the difference. For awhile I believe b0b sold a D9 gauge 10 string set in the steel guitar forum store but I think it was a custom thing he put together from individual strings and don't think it's available as a set anymore. Also, you'll need to retune the pedals, knees and tuneable splits (if you have them) but it's well worth it.

[Lee Gauthier]

I did this pretty early on when learning to play steel and I've stuck to D tunnings since. I did it it mainly because I'm a tinkerer and will spend time finding what tuning sounds best on each instrument I own. I was primarily a bass player prior to playing steel and had a few basses that sound better tuned to D, I often like Tele's tuned to C#. I forget if I wanted to match what one of my guitars was tuned to or if I just liked the tone on that particular pedal steel. You will need to adjust the pedals and levers. Most I could just re-tune the stops like normal, but I think my C or B pedal I had to adjust one of the rods.

Using normal E9 strings down a whole step the lower tension feels really interesting to play and has a more fluid organic feeling and sound. It'd be fun to have a guitar always set up that way I liked the way if sounded on recordings, but using a slightly heavier set to match the E9 tension is more practical and probably sounds better in most cases.

These are the gauges I use.

String1: .013
String2: .016
String3: .012
String4: .015
String5: .018p
String6: .022w
String7: .026w
String8: .030
String9: .036
String10: .040

[Jerry Overstreet]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the tips. All good stuff.

Dennis, I did find one of b0b's entries from the links concerning D and his D9 string set at the forum store too.

Lee, C# huh? Well, I have a Squier '51 that I tuned down to D. I like it but still getting used to the fretting. I'm using a capo to put it back to E at least until I'm comfortable with it.

Thanks so much for listing your findings and string gauges. Very helpful. According to that list, I only have to change about 4 strings. My guitar is a 24" scale if any of that matters.

I might de-tune it with the existing set first just for grins and see how it feels.

I'm gonna do this soon as I get it set up again.

[Robert Miller]

Weird tangent - Tuning down a whole step, using string's that arrive at the same tension will result in a more pronounced fundamental and more subtle harmonics because the bigger string is stiffer. I haven't the foggiest clue why(Possibly because I have the attention span of a gnat), but you can test it. It's part of the reason a Tele "crackles" more with 9s or even 8s, but punches a lot harder with 10s or 11s (Even after accounting for pickup adjustment).

Anyway, it explains some of the reason D9 sounds characteristically different than E9 and not just open. The stiffness difference applies all the way up the neck.

[Dennis Montgomery]

Dennis, I did find one of b0b's entries from the links concerning D and his D9 string set at the forum store too.

Good to know

[C. D. Maclean]

A useful thing to look at is the core size of your wound strings. Different brands may use different sizes. I found when setting up my Ext E9 MSA 12 string that Dunlop strings for 11 and 12 made a huge difference and have stuck with them ever since, but just for those two strings. They have a much heavier core so the strings is less floppy. This was even more obvious when I got a 14 string Sierra which I tune to D9 (ultra ext) and it also has the longer 25” scale. D’addario have a tool on their site which shows string tension and can help choosing the right ones. Gets expensive though if you have to shop around for all the individual strings!
Cheers
Calum

[Chris Templeton]

For those who have done this, any comments on tone?

[Robert Miller]

A bit darker. More fundamental, so the tone, for lack of a better term, is "rounder" and more pronounced. Less of the real breezy highs on the plain strings.

All of that description relies on your imagination, so I'm not sure it does the thing justice. I was going to say "bolder...more 'in your face,'" but then I realized I wasn't selling million dollar vintage Fenders, and I balked.

[Tom Campbell]

The Steel Guitar Forum's store has two sets listed for the D9 tuning (10 string). They are the GHS brand.