My weird C6 copedent

[Aron Odin Kristensen]

Okay maybe it is not weird, as all of the changes are pretty standard. I just find the mix of the minimalistic Jimmy Day copedent and Emmons copedent with the high D a little strange. The high D does not have a raise on P8 like the Emmons setup does. I am considering swapping the high D out for a high G, but some of the steelers i have talked to about this claim that the G -> G# change (which i dont have) is important for the high G tuning. I'll probably try it anyway. This is on my MSA Classic D10, by the way.
I also have no left knee levers, which makes me think of the Jimmy Day setup again, but from the diagrams i have seen, he only had one knee lever on his right knee.
Is there any famous steel player that have played with this kind of setup, or is this truly a mix and match kind of situation?

[Richard Sinkler]

The copedent you posted (except RKR) was the standard in the early days of the pedal steel C6 tuning. Players (including me) eventually started changing the first string to D for the scale tone for runs, similar to the first string F# on E9. The G on string 1 of C6 sounded really weak compared to the rest of the tuning. I probably played with the high G for maybe 30 years, and am confident in saying that I probably never used the G to G# change, though I am sure many did. By the way, the RKR knee lever will give you the 3 notes (C-E-G) on strings 1-2-3, up 3 frets with the lever on strings 2-3-4.

And many, like me, have dumped pedal 4 (A strings to B).

[Dave Mudgett]

Your C6 setup is not weird - it's exactly Buddy's classic C6 setup, except for the lack of the P8 string 1 raise and the left knee lever changes.

Buddy's setup:



Lots of guitars don't have left lever changes on C6 and come set up exactly this way.

The old standard on string 1 was G, but modern players have tended to use the D for its single string melodic use. The 5 (G) on string 1 was a carryover from nonpedal C6 usage.

I also have no left knee levers

If this was my guitar, my priority would be to get Buddy's left lever changes on the guitar. To me, they're an essential part of Buddy's setup. If you mean that you have no left levers on the guitar at all, I would move heaven and earth to add at least two, for the sake of both C6 and E9. If you have left levers on the guitar, I'd just get a couple of pulls to the existing left levers to add those C6 changes. I've done this on a couple of guitars. It also wouldn't be too tough to add the string 1 raise on P8, although I don't think it's as essential as Buddy's left knee changes.

[Aron Odin Kristensen]

Thanks, Richard and Dave. I have now tuned my P4 to raise a half-step instead of a whole-step (partly because of this thread, and partly Ricky Davis recommended it to me). Since you, Richard, have dumped the normal P4 change and you, Dave, recommended getting the Emmons left knee changes, this seems like a logical compromise.

Now, just theoretically speaking, if i didn't need the C raise on right knee (for the inversion of the open position at third fret) by swapping out the high D for a high G, then i could use that lever for lowering in A instead. The concern would be whether or not the A lower and a C raise is often used in combination in the typical Emmons setup... I probably wont make any drastic changes to the copedent, as i already am very comfortable with it, and i honestly quite like having this minimalistic setup (for now...). The C6 players i really enjoy listening to and learning from are Chalker, Murphy, Jimmy Day, and the few tunes the Lloyd Green recorded on C6. I dont care much for the modern sounds at this point in my steel playing (although, i know 2 of those guys were know for crazy copedents with all kinds of chords built in...).

Dave, I do have left knee levers on E9, but they are waaay to far left for playing the C6 pedals on the same time. Very comfortable for E9 tho.

[Dale Rottacker]

Thanks, Richard and Dave. I have now tuned my P4 to raise a half-step instead of a whole-step (partly because of this thread, and partly Ricky Davis recommended it to me). Since you, Richard, have dumped the normal P4 change and you, Dave, recommended getting the Emmons left knee changes, this seems like a logical compromise.

Aron, my C6th theory is undoubtedly WAY less than yours, and if Theory was liquid, my knowledge of it wouldn't be enough to drown in ... BUT ... the problem I see with A>A# on the 4th pedal, (unless you're really into two footed playing) is that you'll want to use that change with both the 5th and 6th pedal, separately and with both at the same time. I raise my A's on MKV and use those combinations with 5 and or 6 ALL the time. Then I'm also lowering the A's on MKR. You're not going to use those two levers at the same time anyhow, but its a very smooth transition from the A#>Ab or the reverse and something I've found useful. My MKL I'm lowering the 5th string G>F with some nice Maj7th from it. I'm still undecided how badly I want that change, but if I were to change it, I may put the 4th pedal A's on it as again, you're probably not going to use any of those A changes with each other. THEN, I'd put the reverse 6th pedal on the 4th, for a bunch more Sus chords, and you can use it with your 5th pedal and your A levers.

Additionally, I know that Buddy raised the A's MKR and lowered MKL ... which is a bit hard for me to understand considering the E9th "E" lever configuration being raise left lower right, the reverse of what he's doing with the A's on C6th. Ergonomically, at least for me, using the 5th as well as the 6th pedal while lowering the A's, flows much easier lowering them moving right, and should I be rocking of 56>6 while lowering the A's, if the A's lowered are moving to the left, then I'm kinda cross pedaling, rocking pedals moving right while lowering A's moving left.

[Aron Odin Kristensen]

Dale, when i was messaging Ricky Davis he also suggested adding a reverse P6 somewhere. P4 might just be the spot for it, since it already has two pulls on it! I wont be able to use it in combination with any A string changes, but it might be a cool change to have anyways.

[Dale Rottacker]

Dale, when i was messaging Ricky Davis he also suggested adding a reverse P6 somewhere. P4 might just be the spot for it, since it already has two pulls on it! I wont be able to use it in combination with any A string changes, but it might be a cool change to have anyways.

Hey Aron, you may want to look at Buck Reids setup, though I can't vouch that its current, but it was a few years ago. Maybe this can help you decide how you'd like to go... You'll also notice that along with a couple extra pulls, Bucks "A" Levers are reverse of Buddy's. Buck is not a fan of Vertical levers, so you won't find one here.

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