Keyboard player from…..

[Roger Crawford]

A singer/guitar player (?) that I work with a good bit usually works a four piece band, him, steel guitar, bass and drums. Friday night he felt led to use a keyboard player. What he played showed that he had some chops, but when he played was a different story. Over the singer, every fill, all breaks unless they specifically call on me. I was basically as useful as a glass hammer. At the end of the night, take your money, shake your head and vow to ask who will be on stage the next time he calls for a gig. I’m sure I’m not the only one this has happened to. How did you guys handle it?

[Lee Rider]

I've had the same issues with keys. They can play all parts of a song at the same time and many do. I would just sit there hoping for some sonic opening. Seems steel guitar and keys occupy the same sonic space. I'd mention it to the singer or, best yet, send a recording to illustrate your concerns.

[Rick Campbell]

I find guitar players, fiddle players, and especially harmonica players that do that. I guess no one ever taught them the basics of playing with a band.

Another annoying thing to me is when on a ballad, everything is going good and you're prepared for your break and as soon as you hit the first note of the solo, the bass player goes into walking the bass and your plan for the break goes out the window. Borrowed Angel is an example. Do you say anything and risk a conflict, or just let it go? A pro band, with a band leader, would settle this, but weekend warriors have to be careful or drama arises. Drama is just as bad as bad playing.

RC

[Dave Grafe]

This is an attitude problem not related to any particular instrument, either you're alert and paying attention to what's happening on stage or you're lost inside your own head. Musicians who mostly play solo often forget that in an ensemble setting they don't have to cover every part. Some never learned this in the first place.

I have dealt with this too many times to mention, and I could tell similar stories about guitarists, horn players, keyboardists, bassists, even drummers who are constantly filling up the musical space and leaving no room for anyone else. I recently played a few shows with a guitarist and keyboardist who were both constantly soloing from start to finish on every song, sometimes even over their own vocals. Really nice guys and hugely talented, but I had to step away from the noise.

Acoustic guitarists often times do not understand that when they are in a band they no longer have to play the bass and drum and lead parts they would naturally cover when playing alone. Even a few big-name artists are guilty of this, and the only solution is for the sound operator to turn their instrument off in the mix. This happens a lot.

We had a very fine bass player sit in with our very tight and tidy band this weekend and every time someone would take a solo the bass would start soloing right along with them. I audiitioned with a "modern country" cover band last year and despite the fine musicianship of several of the members the lead guitar was playing all the steel parts from the original recording in addition to the guitar figures. He heard the parts in his head and didn't know how to NOT play them, so I quickly declined the offer to join them. Another popular local "real country" band has a bass player who thinks he's Jimi Hendrix and never stops playing rock guitar riffs even between songs.

Fortunately I have found several groups of musicians who pay attention to what others are doing before chiming in themselves so it's become very easy to speak up or walk away when this is not the case. There's no point banging one's head against a wall of sound.

[Webb Kline]

In both of my bands, I play steel and piano. This solves having the piano player walking over my fills. My keyboard can shift higher octaves down so I can just reach over from steel and play fills in verses with piano without moving from under my pedals. Sustain pedal is right next to my volume pedal. So far no takes on paying me double though.

[Dave Grafe]

So far no takes on paying me double though.

Aye, there's the rub

[Fred Treece]

I do pretty much what you did. Play almost nothing, wait for the band break, have a friendly chat with the perp, go back on and see if anything changes.

It doesn’t help onstage if the sound guy drops the offender out of the house mix.

Another of my favorite annoyances is the ride cymbal on every frikkin instrumental break. Like, thanks for hogging 99 percent of the high end, jerk.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Been there. In my little circle, it seems that while steel players use amp rigs, key players tend to want plugged into the FOH and monitor mix which adds to the din along with incessant dinking.

I have the same issues with many harmonica players.

I play some keyboards myself, so I'm very aware of my presence in the mix....I also attempt a few other instruments besides keys and steel. I try to put intros and fills where they belong in the song and in places that do not interfere with vocals or other instruments.

Just like with steel, there is fitment space and voids that need to be observed. For songs that I know are going to be done, I try my very best to learn the proper instrumental parts for the particular tune.

I think it just depends on the professionalism of the musician. I'm not sure that it's specific to players of a particular instrument but I do tend to find some of the same things.

I have also found that there is really no help for the clueless player. They either know how it goes or they don't. Chiding, berating or gentle suggestion doesn't seem to effect any change.

I tend not to bother trying to educate them. I just quietly slip away from the situation and let things be for them to figure out on their own some day, hopefully when they find the phone is no longer ringing.

[Bobby D. Jones]

It does not matter the instrument there can be problems. I played in 1 band that fiddle player was the problem. He wanted to play every note in every song.

I played in another band that the lead guitar player was the problem. He was the only lead player when I joined the band. He was used to playing any place any time in a song he wanted to. One night the bass player sung Together Again. He was playing every lick so loud, I turned my hands over, Bar and Picks in the air for the whole song.
There are Guitar pickers, Fiddlers and other instrument players.
And then there is musicians who play instruments. These are the people who make music playing fun and enjoyable.

[Michael Kiese]

Yeah, that's unfortunately a very common issue amongst keyboard players as a group. It's a stereotypical pet peeve of mine.

Keyboard players are used to playing solo gigs where they can cover a lot of territory and take up a lot of space, because it's just them.

I always feel bad for the bass player in a band when a keyboard player has a heavy left hand.

All keyboard players have to do is lay out of the bottom 2 octaves of the piano. That's the bass player's territory, and they have to share that with the kick drum.

The best thing to do is have a conversation before hand and talk it out as a group. Tell each other what you'd like to contribute musically, what space you need and when. And make it clear that you will do your best to stay out of each other's prime real estate.

EQ'ing/Mixing a band is a lot like a ladder. You can fit 10 people on a ladder, they just can't all be on the same rung.

A lot of people don't realize that the more people there are in a band, the less you have to play, and it's OK to play less. It's actually less stressful and more fun.

One of the best bands I ever played in had phenomenal musicians in it. 6 string electric bass player, great keyboardist. They BOTH were taking advantage of the full range of their instruments. As a guitar player, I was left absolutely no space to play, so I politely asked them to give me somewhere between the 3rd and 4th octaves of the piano, so I could do simple little double stop rhythmic ideas. Both the Bass player and Keyboard player responded positively. As a result, they also realized on their own that they needed to play less as well. Sometimes we get so excited to play with good musicians that we want to prove to each other how good we are. But that's counterproductive in a band context.

Leaving space for each other is an art. I loved watching the Time Jumpers play in Nashville. 12 people on stage at a time, yet you can clearly hear every single instrument and vocal harmony, and the stage volume isn't overbearing, instead it is pleasing. 12 world class musicians all listening to each other and sharing the spotlight, passing it off to each other one at a time. When it's someone else's time to shine, all the other musicians use all their experience and talent to make them shine even more. Like riding the perfect wave. They all created the perfect wave for each person to surf. When it was their turn, they took it and went for it. Then they got off the wave and made room for the next person, and provided the same experience for them. It's a beautiful thing to witness, and it's a privilege when you get to experience it for yourself.

Sometimes it takes a lifetime for people to figure this stuff out. Sometimes they never figure it out.

For the people that never figure it out, they want the spotlight, and they don't like sharing it. They're usually the kind of people that aren't interested in what you have to say and they aren't interested in your opinion. Rather, they want to hear THEIR opinion come out of your mouth. Simply put, it's ALL ABOUT THEM.

In some sense, it's a blessing in disguise because those personality types stick out like sore thumbs. They self-select.

Those type of people won't change, and there's nothing you can do about it. Just don't play with 'em. Raise the boundary, cut 'em out. Not worth the stress or money.

Most people aren't these types of people. Most people are receptive to a tactful discussion addressing making space for one another, and sharing.

Just my 2¢.

[Michael Kiese]

We had a very fine bass player sit in with our very tight and tidy band this weekend and every time someone would take a solo the bass would start soloing right along with them.

LOL. Yeah, that's a whole lotta "NOPE".

My other pet peeve (other than busy keyboard players) is bass solos. Nobody wants to hear bass solos except other bass players.

Bass serves a primary fundamental function of providing constant energy. As soon as a bass player starts soloing, all that energy from the bottom end disappears.

The quickest way to clear a dance floor is to tell the bass player to take a solo.

I made a joke once on Facebook (years ago before I quit) "If a bass player shows up to a gig with a 6 string bass, he is expecting to take a solo."

That's ALL I wrote, and it blew up. It was quite entertaining.

Some guy wrote "You're the kind of guy that just wants all their bass players to come to their gigs with P basses and flatwounds".

I replied "Yes. It's much better that way." LOL.

I really kicked the hornet's nest on that one.

BUT IT'S TRUE!!! lol.

[Dave Grafe]

Some guy wrote "You're the kind of guy that just wants all their bass players to come to their gigs with P basses and flatwounds".

I'm available when not playing steel

In a jazz setting bass players do get solos, and most are worthy of attention. Also I'm okay with Chris Scruggs taking a bass solo now and then, and it usually gets the audience pumped when he does.

[Michael Kiese]

Some guy wrote "You're the kind of guy that just wants all their bass players to come to their gigs with P basses and flatwounds".

I'm available when not playing steel

In a jazz setting bass players do get solos, and most are worthy of attention. Also I'm okay with Chris Scruggs taking a bass solo now and then, and it usually gets the audience pumped when he does.

Aloha Dave,

You're right that in a jazz setting, it's more acceptable to throw a bass player a solo.

That said, I've played more jazz gigs than I can count. Most jazz gigs are "society gigs" where the purpose of music is to elevate the ambiance of an event AKA "Background Music". Which is cool, and you can get away with a lot with those types of gigs.

More often than not, I've found that most upright bass players have a very woofy and undefined tone. A lot of times, it's hard to hear the actual note they're playing, and their sound becomes more like a kick drum than a note, so they use that as a means of "cheating". If you combine that with what essentially ends up being an unaccompanied "drums and bass" solo, form goes out the window, and so does the melody. What you end up with is sonic soup that loses most of the audience's interest.

If I'm leading a jazz gig, I'll throw the bass player a solo maybe once a set if they're good, and once a night if they're not good.

The role of bass is very fundamental and vital. When it comes to knowing the form of a song, a bass player has to bat 900 or higher. Everyone else in the band can bat 300 or 400 with the song form. They have the luxury of temporarily losing their way in the song and then finding themselves again. If the bass player plays the wrong note on the downbeat of 1, EVERYBODY notices. The audience, the band, the waitstaff, the manager, the owner, the cooks in the kitchen...lol. Bass is like the glue of the band. It marries rhythm and harmony.

You throw a bass player a solo, and the glue is GONE. The bottom end of the band just immediately drops out. Who fills the bass player's role when the bass player takes a solo? Nobody.

A great bass player is a very giving person. They hold everything down. They keep everything together. They're like eggs in a cake.

Bass players play bass. They don't play melody. Melodies are NEVER written in bass clef. Unless you're playing the theme from JAWS. lol.

If you're playing a concert where the audience knows who you are, and came specifically to see you perform, and PAID tickets to see you, do whatever you please, because the audience paid to see you.

If you're playing a regular society gig, where the audience didn't even know there would be live music, push the easy button. Don't give the bass player a solo. Put him to work. He has an important job, and it's more important than his ego. Giving him one solo a set is GENEROUS. One solo per gig is enough.

Just my 2¢. There are no rules to this stuff.

But yeah, bass players taking lots of solos, and busy keyboard players are definitely the highest on my personal list of pet peeves.

Avoid em!