Kayton Robert’s tuning and string guages

[Ben Godard]

Does anyone know what string guages that Kayton Robert’s used on his Fender he played with Hank Snow.
I’m told that his tunings are


——Back neck———
From high to low
E
C
A
G
E
C#
A
A low octive

——Front neck———-
F
D
A
F
G
Eb
C
F

[Ben Godard]

Also was his guitar 24.5” or 22.5” scale legnth

[Doug Beaumier]

I don't know what gauges he used, but you might want to check out John Ely's excellent string gauge chart for all open notes on lap steel.

----> https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/gauges.php

[Andy Gibson]

I studied with Kayton for years and used his tunings and licks throughout my career playing 8 strings.

He played a Dual Professional and 22.5 is the only scale fender made it in.

C6th:
E .015
C .018
A .020p
G .022w
E .030
C# .034
A .034
Low A .070 or .068

The reason for the .034 on the 7th is because he tuned it UP to F for his chime tuning and de-tuned the low A keeping it out of the way with a hook screwed on the body to keep from hitting it.

Dminor 9th or F9th
F .015
D .018
A .022p
F .036w
G .030
Eb .038
C .044
F .054

No kidding…..The reason he tuned his outside neck like that was to get chimes on the 4 chord when chiming in the key of C. Ain’t that neat? I tuned it one step down to C#minor 9th ….
E
C#
G#
E
F#
D
B
E

or it can be called E9th. Which ever you choose to call it he didn’t know what it was. He came up with that tuning and flipped the F and G (E and F#)because of Jerry Byrd’s “come a little closer”. And makes the grips a little easier to do.

I have custom made Dunlop string sets with Kaytons gauges $40 for a case of 12 in both tunings.

[Andy Gibson]

Kayton Roberts 7 string chime tuning….

E
C
A
G
E
C#
F (that’s right, higher than the C#)

Used on Bells of St Mary and other chime songs

[Ben Godard]

Thanks for that priceless info. Kayton is one of my favorites for sure

I have a question however. I plan to use his tunings on a 24.5 scale. Do I need to go down a tad in the string guage thickness

[Andy Gibson]

Probably but 22.5 is the way to go

[Joe A. Roberts]

What do you mean dismantled the A string with a hook screw?
Like the ball end of the string is threaded through a hook screw behind the bridge?
What about the string being wound upon the tuner shaft?

[Andy Gibson]

Sorry, I meant to say….In the chime tuning, the low A is not used so it is de-tuned all the way and then kept out of the way with a small hook he screwed into the body. So you don’t hit it while doing chimes

[Joe A. Roberts]

Thanks for the clarification Andy, I understand it now, interesting!

[Kelly Hagerman]

Chiming in that this is invaluable info, I got into steel in the last 2 months and have become a massive Kayton fan and imitator.
I always thought it would be a mystery what that outside neck was tuned to.
His Twin Steel Guitars record with Little Roy Wiggins is phenomenal.

[Michael Kiese]

Mahalo for sharing Andy!

I love Kayton's playing. He was the first person where I had the experience of thinking I was listening to pedal steel, but he was playing straight steel.

I also love that he had more than a handful of Hawaiian songs in his repertoire.

Thank you for that tidbit of Kayton slackening his low A2 all the way.

How did Kayton use that low A1 with the .070w? That low A1 is in the first octave of the piano, and that's bass player territory.

The problem of having that low A1 is that you'd want to use it, and Kayton DID. lol. There are a few videos on YouTube of Kayton walking basslines OVER the Bass player. Haha. Not cool, but he got away with it because he's funny and entertaining.

Here's one of Kayton playing St. Louis Blues. He cracks me up. Kayton plays a Bass line OVER the Bass player, DURING the other steel players solo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3Z8NTwZp8&t=200s.

I know more than a few bass players who'd get really ticked off if someone played bass lines over their bass lines. Pretty much every bass player. haha.

Is that something that is unique to Kayton, or did other steel players of his era do the same?

[Tim Whitlock]

I get severe bar buzz when I use a big string like that on my Dual Pro. Do you have to file a notch in the nut for the big string to sit down in, so it's on an even plane with the rest of the strings?

[Kelly Hagerman]

Kayton's playing is a huge inspiration as someone trying to just play console steel. Has anyone figured how he does his really pentatonic sounding licks like on Movin' On? I saw in the below video around 1:00 in when he goes to the IV chord and back to the I with those high bends, he appears to just be bending the 3rd string and then the 2nd string. Although following him in a C6 tuning doesn't give the same results.

Kayton Roberts Steel Guitar Moments 1933 - 2017 solos & improvisation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YkKJaCmQ-c

Kayton Roberts- The Hits of Hank Snow Vol. 1 FULL ALBUM (2009) Self-Released
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og3q3E2 ... Ho14AaABAg