Question about ProTools and adding Windows XP to 8.1

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 27 Jul 2015 7:17 am

I don't know how this works (obviously).
XP is freely available if that's what it would take for an older version of Pro Tools (6.4, all I could need).

I have 64-bit x-64 based processor with 3 gig RAM, 204 of 232 gig on hard drive free.

My question: I see that Wiz and possibly Jack carry two OS simultaneously. Does that require switching back and forth?
If I pick up Win 10 and
XP (for the sole purpose of DAW) would I have to dump one?

Simple answers would work for me. Thanks in advance.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 27 Jul 2015 7:39 am

If your recording software only works under Windows XP and you are satisfied with the current level of performance, leave that machine as a dedicated D.A.W. and take it offline forever (unplug it from the network or router and remove any wireless cards). You won't have to worry about security problems, anti-virus scan slowdowns, updates, etc. Just Grandfather it as is.

Buy a new Windows 10 machine for Internet use. You will thank me later.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 27 Jul 2015 7:45 am

Not quite sure: I don't have the software yet.
If I try and run Pro Tools designed for XP on my 8.1 (even off line),
I will be vulnerable, is that what you're saying??

The simple form of my question would be: will programs in general that require old OS work on upgraded OS?

I think I grasp, but want to make sure they don't get all my base.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 27 Jul 2015 8:01 am

Sorry Charlie; I missed your point about adding XP as a dual boot to your existing Windows 8.1 PC.

If you proceed with this fiasco you are bound to run into some hardware incompatibilities. You see, hardware drivers for Windows Vista and newer are not always backwards compatible with earlier operating systems. In fact, some devices inside Windows 8 computers won't run under 8.1.

XP is gone, as is hardware support for it. However, newer versions of the recording software are written to talk to new hardware. You would be better off getting the latest version of Pro Tools, or at least a version that worked on Windows 8.1.

Mark Wayne · Post by **Mark Wayne** » 23 Aug 2015 8:54 pm

"Sorry Charlie," (I just finished eating some tuna) lol.

Anyhow, Wiz is so right about keeping a separate PC exclusively for recording. It's a bit inconvenient for updating plugins, etc., but a flash drive works great for transferring authorization files. I've been going that route for 11 years. It just takes a load off your mind too, that if you freeze - at least it wasn't because of something Internet related.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 23 Aug 2015 11:56 pm

Yes, I've discovered these and many other things in my search among DAW's. You can go crazy just searching for what works with 8.1.
A good approach for someone like me seems to begin modestly with Pro Tools First, a limited program that allows for the addition of modules
as time goes along, and my Big City recording engineer/adviser concurs. As to Audacity, he says there's a reason there's Pro Tools.
(Who would be interested in a program called Amateur Tools? And who would want to return to XP to get it?)
You can also get all the trial programs in the world, but Big City Engineer says it's best to undergo the learning curve only once.

With Pro Tools First, there are plenty of features to begin with, without the ones I don't need (all DAW's offer so many things
that aren't necessary in good music production--do you really need or want something called Fruity Loops to create or re-create a song?).
Later, one can buy more projects to go into the cloud, and features and effects as needed, one unit at a time.

As far as having a computer dedicated to recording....

Sorry,
Charlie

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 24 Aug 2015 3:30 am

I use Sonar in my studio. Pro tools is popular and I tried it with PT version 9. But didn't like it.

sonar is compatible with 8.1 and win 10.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 24 Aug 2015 6:17 am

Charlie McDonald wrote:A good approach for someone like me seems to begin modestly with Pro Tools First, a limited program that allows for the addition of modules as time goes along

Even without the add-ons, I found PT 10 to be overly complex and unintuitive, even just for simple tasks. It may be the "go-to" software for professional recording outfits, but it's way more than an amateur needs at home, IMO. You may or may not be aware of the number of 3rd-party Pro Tools tutorials, training courses, etc which attest to the learning curve involved.

I uninstalled it and returned to Adobe Audition 3.0, which is also capable of doing more than I'll ever need, but using it helps me avoid the PT "frustration factor".

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 25 Aug 2015 2:10 am

Thanks, guys, I'll take your suggestions under advisement.
You can find many cons with every program; it takes time to kiss a lot of toads, but I've got the time.
I think one ought to check out Pro Tools for oneself; everybody's thinking appears to be different.
Only Audacity need not apply.

I've looked at Adobe Audition. It appears that after a trial period one can pick it up with a monthly rate.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 25 Aug 2015 5:47 am

Adobe has gone to subscription software service, but many programs (like Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver) are still available to purchase. Check into it if you want to go that way. But, Adobe software is expensive. I'm sure you could get recording programs cheaper, if Adobe offers Audition for sale. I don't use Audition, except for audio editing. I don't record my own stuff any more.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 25 Aug 2015 6:45 am

Charlie McDonald wrote:I think one ought to check out Pro Tools for oneself; everybody's thinking appears to be different.

I think PT users can be divided into two distinct groups - recording industry heavy hitters (and wannabes), and all the rest of us amateurs. And, as I said, for the "rest of us amateurs", it's a really steep learning curve to get just basic usability out of it, with many alternatives that aren't nearly as "exquisitely complex".

I've looked at Adobe Audition. It appears that after a trial period one can pick it up with a monthly rate.

Yeah, Adobe's pretty much lost a fan-boi in me with their move to all-rental, all-the-time. I bought my Adobe software, Audition, Photoshop, etc, before they decided to go the "rental" route. Where they got the idea that people would think a pay-by-the-month scheme is wonderful is beyond me, but I won't participate. It's likely part of their overall "community" and "cloud" marketing efforts, but I've never found anything useful in those, either.
/rant

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 25 Aug 2015 7:14 am

Richard Sinkler wrote:Adobe has gone to subscription software service, but many programs (like Photoshop, Illustrator, Dreamweaver) are still available to purchase.

Not sure about the others, but Photoshop CS6 is still available in "non-subscription" form....for now. They say they're doing "bug-fixes" only - no new features. And I think it's just a temporary thing, as they transition to a full subscription-only mode, with everything users do, including access to the software they're "renting", done "in the cloud".

Quoting from a post in one of Adobe's "Creative Cloud" discussions:

"After your annual membership expires or is cancelled, the applications you have installed will be deactivated and you won't be able to use them."

Nice, huh? Such slick, silver-tongued customer relations. I find any company's attempt to force me into their "cloud" with such blatant sales tactics extremely offensive.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 25 Aug 2015 9:55 am

Sonar has gone to subscription. But if you buy the program with the subscription monthly upgrades after the subscription period if you don't renew you still own the program it doesn't deactivate like a lot of subscription software

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 25 Aug 2015 10:43 am

Jack Stoner wrote:But if you buy the program with the subscription monthly upgrades after the subscription period if you don't renew you still own the program it doesn't deactivate like a lot of subscription software

I haven't studied that one, but it sounds like the operative wording there is "if you buy the program...".

Adobe's new Photoshop CC product can't be bought, as I understand things. You "subscribe", or it self-destructs. "It's my way or da highway", as they say, apparently, for the Adobe crowd now.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 25 Aug 2015 4:44 pm

I hear that Microsoft is, or has, gone subscription for MS Office. I don't really know though. I do the Adobe monthly thing, as I have access to more programs than I could ever afford to purchase outright. I believe that most of Adobe's CS6 programs are available, although expensive.

Once every month, when you open a program, it contacts Adobe to see if you are paid up. If not, your copy of the software will die. The same as CS6, if you are getting it as part of the Creative Cloud. With the monthly service, you never own the programs. It's not a thing where after a certain amount paid, you own the program. No lay-a-way program there.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Oct 2015 2:19 am

Pro Tools is available as a monthly subscription and Perpetual License.I know this first hand from maybe two weeks ago. 3 years of monthly subscription is about the same as a perpetual license purchase which comes with a 12 month upgrade. I have just completed my Home Studio upgrade to PT 12, Perpetual License, registered.

topic here

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=290534

I am not a heavy hitter, the notion that PT's is divided into two user categories is not anything I would agree with. I am a small time home studio, producing personal,demo, small client and simple CD projects, but they ALL REQUIRE the exact same process and procedure as any BIG HITTER studio producing retail sessions. The end product may very well be different but the process is exactly the same and the production tools required to complete any project are one and the same.

I would disagree, PT's is no more difficult to learn than any other DAW. I run two versions of PT, have run two versions of Sonar and a version of Cubase. Quite frankly , Sonar and PT's , although the screen shot looks a bit different, they are very similar and I would suggest if a person has some exposure on either they can sit and run either.

Put 50 people in front of ONE task ,25 will get it done, 15 will get it done with some tinkering, 5 will get it done with some more tinkering and sadly, 5 will never get it done , then walk away and blame the task.

they all do the same thing

set up ins and outs via interface

Assign tracks to inputs

add tracks, how many do you want and what kind, audio, midi ,stereo, mono ?

Plug your guitar into the interface, hit a few notes

Monitor the track input, set the level with your interface or preamp, keep the level out of the yellow...

hit the record button

Play music then stop

Playback

Or you can use one of the available templates and edit it to your liking .

Sure, once tracks are recorded and to your liking, now the track clean up and production tools come into play. Some DAWS approach this differently, no doubt, but each of the FULL DAW packages offer pretty much the same if not similar paths to the end product. BUT, you do not have to use even ONE of the editing tools or production tools. If you like what you have done, you are finished.

I think too many people confuse flexibility with complexity.

Any DAW, setup a template which is close to what your projects are, use that TEMPLATE each time you start a new session. Save your session with the project name. Tomorrow, repeat...

The project setup for simple , basic tracking is about as easy as pie. It's how WE look at things and obviously we each look at things differently. It's "our" process, how do we execute the software .

Regarding running older DAW versions on XP, do it on a separate PC , the issue will not be a DAW one but rather a PC issue trying to run XP and a new OS version at the same time. DAWS are looking for drivers , specifically and foremost interface INS and OUTS. Two OS's will confuse the tar out of the DAW.

This will be especially true a for some of the older DAW versions that will not run on 64 bit platforms. Mass hysteria will take place inside the PC case !

Don't do it !

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 5 Oct 2015 7:20 am

Well, we'll agree to disagree...on several (very old) points I made.

Tony Prior wrote:I am not a heavy hitter, the notion that PT's is divided into two user categories is not anything I would agree with. ... The end product may very well be different but the process is exactly the same and the production tools required to complete any project are one and the same.

Not my experience at all. As a casual home user, I quickly learned that PT has a virtual plethora of minutiae on which one can spend literally hours upon hours just trying to grasp their relation to the process at hand, and the majority of those minutiae are totally specious to simply recording single tracks of input to a master bus, one at a time. They're just not necessary for that. I won't waste time citing more examples, but the same is true for every aspect of PT - multiple levels of interrelated selection possibilities that one player, recording one track at a time, doesn't need.

I would disagree, PT's is no more difficult to learn than any other DAW....I think too many people confuse flexibility with complexity.

Again, disagree. See above. Note that nothing I said earlier, or here can be construed to mean that I think PT isn't capable, high quality recording software. I simply think it's massive overkill, both price-wise and capability-wise, for most casual recording. An analogy that comes to mind would be using a Maserati to haul gravel.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Oct 2015 8:51 am

And we will agree to disagree, but my experience building songs ONE TRACK at a time has been nothing but a pleasure with PT's for the last 7 years .

I guess I can't relate to the hrs upon hrs of minutiae. The process I use, from start to finish, has us laying down tracks , one track at a time, to a completed end in approx 3 hours.

Everything I have recorded for the last 7 years is one track at a time. But why does that even matter.

Like many of us do, we are looking at the exact same platform in different ways, which is why it is certainly understandable that we can come away with a different point of view.

Software users can site all sorts of examples and degrees of complexity but then others can respond to the same executions with simplicity.

My intent here is not to argue but to let others who may be reading see that one persons process may not be the same as another's, so perhaps another view is worth while.

Here is a 4 track Pro Tools session, I don't think we spent more than two hours on the whole project which included writing a drum track in BIAB. In my mind this is about as simple "hauling gravel" as one can get.

https://soundcloud.com/rumbleroomaudio/ ... edal-steel

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 5 Oct 2015 9:06 am

The point about using a dedicated operating system cannot be overstated. Whether the program requires XP, or another OS, set up a computer that just runs that OS, load it with all the RAM it can use and strip out everything that is not needed to run the workstation as a DAW.

VSD operating systems running inside a host operating system have to share resources and use the same hardware and drivers, which may be made for a newer OS and not fully backward compatible with the recording software.

Further, programs running in the background in the host OS may adversely affect the VSD system. This is a bad thing for audio recording and mixing.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Oct 2015 9:10 am

Print what Wiz said above and read it everyday.

out loud , so others can hear it !

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 5 Oct 2015 10:03 am

Tony Prior wrote:Here is a 4 track Pro Tools session, I don't think we spent more than two hours on the whole project which included writing a drum track in BIAB.

I would just say that I'm not the only one who discovered that there are other just as viable options which don't involve the steep learning curve of PT. That's pretty much it for me, in a nutshell. And it was satisfying to finally get rid of the silly security dongle.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Oct 2015 12:06 am

Dave not to worry, all software programs are not for all people, they never are.

If you are ever near me, come by the house, in 30 minutes I will unlock the "simplistic" power of Pro Tools for you and then we can talk about Steel Guitars after that. I'll even put Burgers on the grill !