So many levers

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 7 Sep 2002 5:38 pm

I've been scanning the Forum ever since I joined a few weeks ago looking at different steels for sale and reading about other players steels and equipment. I'm amazed at how many knee levers some of you use. My humble little guitar has only four and in the 22 years I've been playing it, I haven't even began to master them. I would realy like to hear some of you 8 or 10 lever guys play. You have to be musical wizzards. If I had that many , I could only hope they stayed in tune because the gig would be over before I could get tuned up.
[This message was edited by Eddie Malray on 07 September 2002 at 06:52 PM.]

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 7 Sep 2002 7:05 pm

I watched some of the finest players that are at the tip top of the steel world on a video and noticed that the pedals not the levers were being used most of the time.I watched the video 3 more times and inspite of the many levers, the pedals were used mostly.Each player had lots of levers .Each of these experts played with alot of heart without pumping the pedals to death.The video told the story its in the hands.Levers are great to have when you need them.[This message was edited by Andy Alford on 08 September 2002 at 04:01 AM.]

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 7 Sep 2002 9:38 pm

Most of the additional levers are on C6th that is those in addition to the normal 5 levers. The additional 3 levers on the C6th are very nice to have.
Jerry

Martin Weenick · Post by **Martin Weenick** » 7 Sep 2002 10:32 pm

Lloyd uses four, and only three of those most of the time. Nuf said.

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Martin W. Emmons LG III 3/5 Peavy 1000

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 8 Sep 2002 1:22 am

Clearly not an expert here, My current Carter D10 has 9+8, the 9th pedal ( P4 ) is the Franklin change for the E9th and each neck uses 5 knee levers. On the E 9th neck .I use the two E levers as part of everyday life. . The other levers such as 1st and second string raise, second string lower and some unison pulls on the other lever are pretty much there to add to what I already do or rather trying to do . The unison pulls are new to me as I have only had this guitar for about 2 weeks now but the potential is really great. Yes 4 knee's appears to be the standard or common format but there are plenty of nice things that can be added above that. Now the extra 4 knee lever changes on the C6th neck, I suppose I will just be carrying those around for a while !
tp

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Sep 2002 6:18 am

I'm just now in the process of adding 3 knee levers to my Legrande. These are for theC6th neck. This is so I'll have a separate set of left knees for the C6th. With this addition, there'll be 8 knee levers on my axe. I won't use all of them, all of the time, but what the heck, It's my guitar, I can do what I want with it, right?

Uff-Da!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Sep 2002 11:19 am

I play E9th with 5 levers (I've had a vertical since 1978). I've tried more, but got confused. 5 levers are 5 very distinct movements, which makes the "muscle memory" aspect of playing very easy.

I use all 5 when I play. Lloyd Green is right in his "don't change them" approach. I've changed a few things over the years, and now I realize that my musical reflexes would be better if I hadn't. I do believe that my current copedent is what's best for me, though. I wish I had started out with it!

On my crossover Williams, I use the same 5 levers (and the same muscle memory) on both necks. This reduces the confusion of switching necks considerably.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 8 Sep 2002 11:43 am

I agree with "don't change it", at least unless you really feel it's absolutely necessary....In '79 I bought a new MSA and played the same setup for years, then last year bought a steel with a different knee-lever setup, thought I'd get used to it and be more "modern". While getting used to it I could play slow stuff OK but of course not quick enough on the different levers to play fast, even after several months. Decided to just go back to my familiar setup, then had to get used to it all over again. Even though I could play slow stuff immediately, cuz there's time to think, I'm still not as automatic as I used to be and consequently can't play the real fast stuff well, my brain just isn't automatic like it was before I started messing with it.

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 8 Sep 2002 4:49 pm

Thanks guys for the information. I kinda suspected the extra levers were for C. I play very little C and hardly no pedals or levers then. My guitar has four levers and sometimes I wish I had five for a B lower but I guess I'll live without it.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 8 Sep 2002 5:00 pm

This topic again? It's not what you have but what you do with it! Less can be more. I've sold over 800 "Two knee lever" videos. Someone out there is listening, and probably playing better too!

Thanks Tommy white, you were part of my inspiration for this lever. It really is the answer to "big playing" for many people.
Had one guy tell me once," nothing there I can use", my response was, you are probably right.
Less can be more if you know how to use it!
(Pamela Anderson, 1985)

( no relation to "Reece" Anderson)

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 8 Sep 2002 7:02 pm

Seymore, you amaze me. You are so full
of BS ( B efore S ilicone ).
W.C.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 9 Sep 2002 1:12 pm

Bobbe,

"Thanks Tommy white, you were part of my inspiration for this lever"

What knee lever are you referring to?

thx

bob

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 9 Sep 2002 5:52 pm

BobbeSeymour: If this two lever set up is a trade secret and something you are marketing, I won't ask you to give the secret away. Just one question. Do I have to change the setup on the guitar very much?
Thanks,
Eddie Malray

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 9 Sep 2002 7:42 pm

No Eddie, It is very simple to install, and not a trade secrete either. However, playing it requires different thinking than the old simple "corn" setup. Tommy White lit the fuse on this neat trick a couple years ago by playing similar things this trick knee( as we call it) will do but I combined it with another lever that it wouldn't conflict with. Not only did it not conflict, but the combination of the two knees that usually couldn't be pushed together, opened up a whole new way of playing everything that was unobtainable previously.
If you just want to play extremly simple country, with just simple major chords everywhere, forget this lever (change), but if you want to play big beautiful harmonys and crave a lot more from your E 9th tuning and play it easily, this is your deal. And I Thank Tommy for opening my mind to this incredible style of E9th that day in my store. He also plays some of this style on his great video (Pedal Head).
It is all on a video on my web-site,Called the "two knee lever set-up" but many players still opt to have the "E" raise with it also. This lever works very well in combination with every other lever, just makes some of them obsolete, or redundant.
Call me if you or anyone has any questions about this lever setup or system.
615 822 5555
The video is still available.

Bobbe Seymour

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 9 Sep 2002 7:47 pm

By the way, the '69 Emmons and the solid black GFI that I play , both only have two knees on them. I'm playing more than I ever have in my life. (oh boy)
Smiley Roberts saw me play it two days ago and though I was playing C6th (so he claimed). Big chords and great harmonies can be played with only two knees, and simply too!

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 10 Sep 2002 5:01 pm

Bobbe Seynour: Thanks very much for your information. I'm Sixty years old an all I play is Country. Well maybe a little Pop or rock if I have to. I do love the beautiful chords though and use them all I can but at my stage in life and being a Blue Collar worker by trade, I think it might be best to stay with what I know. I get by pretty well with the Emmons set up. I use all the levers and don't really think about what I'm doing. I guess they are part of my soul by now. However I am coming to your shop as soon as I can. I hope you are there and can show me the new setup. Again, thanks so much for taking time to talk to a not so famous player.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Sep 2002 6:11 pm

Eddie, you are sixty years old and can't change now? How old will you be if you do change?

(Gene O'Neal, 1989)

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Sep 2002 6:12 pm

Eddie, I'm really looking forward to seeing you, We'll have a good time! (I'll try to remember when I was sixty)

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 10 Sep 2002 6:34 pm

So many levers, so little time.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 11 Sep 2002 10:17 am

It's not the question if you need so many levers, or pedals, or whatever. If it brings you joy in doing a lot of changes from one position, or you just like to try out nice chordchanges or paterns, go for it, the sky is the limit!
(Who knows some-one comes up with a shoulder-lever or eyebrow or nose -pedal

)
Enjoy what you do, whether you have 0 or 100 levers on your axe!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 11 Sep 2002 10:23 am

An eyebrow lever? Yea!!!!!

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 11 Sep 2002 11:20 am

The Idea is you can have pleanty of Ideas with limited knee levers; and with more knee levers; you will have other Ideas. Being able to create Ideas with a few knee levers and also lots of knee levers; is the whole Idea here. Don't ever stop having or looking for Ideas; with what ever you go with in your quest to make your own sound come true. "THAT'S THE IDEA"
Ricky

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 11 Sep 2002 6:13 pm

Ricky, Bobbe and Johan: Maybe I'm not to old to try this new setup. The more I think about it the more intrested I get. BUT I know it will thke a lot of time for me to get use to it because I am a man of limited abaility. God did'nt bless me with the talent that he gave you guys. I can play with local small town bands but I would'nt set my guitar up inside the city limits of Nashville.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 12 Sep 2002 6:15 am

Eddie,
it's really from no importance what your talents are, it's about your own pleasure in playing steel. Some people collect guns with all bells and whisles and can't shoot a cow from 2 feet distance. As long as they enjoy playing with it, it adds something to their lives. Let it be the same with music and it's instruments.
Good luck!
Johan www.steeljj.com [This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 12 September 2002 at 07:16 AM.]

Kenny Foy · Post by **Kenny Foy** » 12 Sep 2002 7:42 am

AMEN JOHAN!!!!!