Lonnie Donegan RIP - ten years ago today.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Nov 2012 10:41 am

He was a huge influence in Britain in the 1950s and it was his music that first lit a fire in me. It doesn't feel like ten years since he left us.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 3 Nov 2012 10:46 am

Did you come to know him personally Roger? Seems like you knew just about everyone over there.....

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Nov 2012 11:03 am

Yes, Bob, and I got to play with him in later years.

Here I am doing the rehearsal for 'This Is Your Life' in 1991 - I'm sound-checking the Martin that the TV company had thoughtfully provided for the occasion (they knew he was forever associated with 000 Martins and couldn't use his as he'd then know about the TIYL 'ambush!). Here I try to sing 'Rock Island Line' in D with Beryl Bryden and bassist Chris Barber - the personnel on his first hit record.

Lonnie wasn't the warmest individual I ever met and, despite his dazzling and charismatic stage presence, he struck me as being deeply insecure. He certainly left his mark, though, with thirty-plus chart records from '56 to '62 and he must have inspired dozens of young guys who went on to be world-renowned musicians to pick up a guitar in the first place.

Here are some at the Memorial Service in London in May 2003. Among others, Bill Wyman, Albert Lee, Brian May, Joe Brown... Mark Knopfler was there but he missed the picture!!

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 3 Nov 2012 11:16 am

Lonnie & Marty Wilde were our manager back in the 60's when I was with Justin Hayward...Lonnie was a very good producer as well as singer

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 3 Nov 2012 11:43 am

Good words Roger. For me, one of Lonnie'a main legacies is that he inspired thousands of young adolescent males to aspire to play guitar. The obvious star names are well documented that were inspired by Lonnie, but for the likes of us ordinary guys from my generation it was the fact that Lonnie gave a lot of exposure to his lead guitarists. The great and wonderful Denny Wright would play some blazing solos behind Lonnie with a freedom and creativity that had never been seen before in the UK. Lonnie's music was trailblazing over here.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 3 Nov 2012 12:32 pm

Left to right in that pic: Chas & Dave, Joe Fagin, Bert Weedon and Bruce Welch, Joe Brown, Bill Wyman, Albert Lee (I'm just behind him), Brian May and, front, Chas McDevitt.

Well said, Ken! Denny was phenominal and was a perfect musical fit with Donegan - his replacement, Jimmy Currie was also excellent but had some scary shoes to fill. It was seated in the stalls of the Finsbury Park Empire watching the Group with Jimmy, Nick Nicholls and Mickey Ashman in 1957 that I first realised what I wanted to do with my life - I wanted to be 'Jimmy'!!!!

You know? That's pretty much what I've done for the last fifty-something years - played obligato behind a procession of singers...

So yes: maybe hundreds of us wanted to be 'Denny', 'Jimmy' or 'Les' (LD's guitarists through those first crucial five years pre-Beatles). I can still feel the electricity and the passion of those days and it was all because of Lonnie that, by '61, I was moved to become a pro myself. A greenhorn, admittedly, and a bit overwhelmed by the step I'd taken but I wouldn't change a thing in retrospect...

...except, perhaps, I'd practice a bit harder!

Thanks, LD!!!

here he is with Jimmy Currie playing his ES-175...

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 3 Nov 2012 1:43 pm

John Roche wrote:Lonnie & Marty Wilde were our manager back in the 60's when I was with Justin Hayward...Lonnie was a very good producer as well as singer

Since you've mentioned this John, please let me know what kind of music J. Hayward played pre- Moody Blues?

Ned McIntosh · Post by **Ned McIntosh** » 3 Nov 2012 9:28 pm

My most vivid memory of Lonnie Donegan was when he had two big hits with his skiffle band; "Does Your Chewing Gum Lose Its Flavour" and "My Old Man's A Dustman". Skiffle was well-established in Britain in the late 50s and it wasn't really supplanted (at least by English artists) until the Beatles burst onto the scene and the Mersey-Beat swept all before it.

A great many famous names in British pop music all got their start in Skiffle-bands; Mick Jagger, John Lennon, Ronnie Wood, Van Morrison, Roger Daltrey, Jimmy Page and Dave Gilmour to name but a few.

My family moved to England in 1956 and returned from there in late 1959 (or possibly early 1960, I don't recall exactly). There was no commercial radio in England back then, so I must have heard skiffle music via Radio Luxembourg, which broadcast in English and could be received pretty much anywhere in the UK at night (they started English broadcasts at dusk) because of the favourable radio propagation at night.

Radio Luxembourg broadcast pop music by the English to the English and had a huge following because of the monopoly the BBC had on radio broadcasting, coupled with the refusal of the British government to licence commercial radio stations - which was in turn to lead to the famous "pirate" radio stations out in international waters a short distance from the English coast, the most famous of which was "Radio Caroline".

Hard to believe it is ten years since Lonnie Donegan died - indeed it is. He was a pivotal member of a vibrant musical era in England at that time.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 4 Nov 2012 12:37 am

Joachim, Justin was writing his own songs back then.
in 1965 we went to PYE studios and recorded a few that he had wrote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLImx6-yIMU

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 4 Nov 2012 1:08 am

Wow John, these are great recordings! Thanks.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 4 Nov 2012 1:16 am

The band were called the Shots, from Wantage.
We also recorded Fly Me High & Circus of Sour, & I Can't Face the World Without You,
Justin was still a real nice man....

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 4 Nov 2012 1:52 am

I did a little research, John. "Fly Me High" was later recorded by the Moodys. And your recording with the Shots was used as a demo for this. Which instrument did you play?
Sorry about the topic drift Roger, but this stuff is so interesting for me.

John Roche · Post by **John Roche** » 4 Nov 2012 2:06 am

I did play lead guitar,but Justin was a great player as well.I had the sheet of paper that he wrote the song Fly me high on for years but I seem to have lost it. on the flips side of the sheet was an order for food from the local fish and chip shop in Swindon.
Not many know this but Justin was an extra in the film Doctor Dolittle in 1967. I went with to the shoot he was derssed as a sailor...

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Nov 2012 2:39 am

Forgive me for disrupting Lonnie's memorial
as much as i know how important Lonnie was to the Musik boom in post war UK, should'nt Alexis Korner, be brought into the picture ?
he too helped many musicians & artists did'nt he
you'll tell me Alexis is another story since he was more into da " Blues "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Korner

Have a blessed Sunday

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 4 Nov 2012 3:57 am

But Alexis never had anything approaching a hit record and had only a tiny underground following - he was never in a position, nor possessed of the charisma, to make any real impression on more than a handful of people.

That's like suggesting that Arthur Crudup ('That's Alright Mama') should be accorded the same status as Elvis Presley in pop music history. Donegan, in very short order, became a star and a household name by virtue of his energy and personality. In the process of his success we all learned something about American roots music - Broonzy, Guthrie, Leadbelly - but it was Lonnie himself rather than the music who was the beacon.

A couple of years into his career he began to incorporate novelty songs - presumably he saw the writing on the wall for so-called 'skiffle' - and realised he'd have to evolve if he wanted to last. He seemed able to succeed in any genre even if some of us wished he'd stayed with his earliest stuff.

Alexis Korner? You may as well claim that Julian Bream was a better guitarist than Lonnie Donegan! True - but so what?

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 4 Nov 2012 6:17 am

I like them both!

Will Houston · Post by **Will Houston** » 4 Nov 2012 7:20 am

Great post Roger. Thanks

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 4 Nov 2012 7:37 am

Chaeck this out - super intro and fills from Denny Wright and this track, I think, demonstrates how different Donegan's approach was to anything on the then-current scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd4RzTSEW54

And this was a 'B' side!

I really believe that being exposed to his vocal style back in 1956 allowed me to more readily access and enjoy bluegrass music so many years later. LD's group always swung, too - the guys on the records were, of course, the ones we'd see at his concerts.

Geoff Cole · Post by **Geoff Cole** » 5 Nov 2012 2:20 am

Great thread Roger, so glad you brought it up. Doesn't time fly.?. I was and still am a Lonnie Donegan fan. Good on you Roger and take care mate.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 5 Nov 2012 4:56 am

Roger

Listening to the range of that vocal, Lonnie wasn't a million miles away from some of the great bluegrass singers like Bobby Osborne, Bill Monroe and Jim McReynolds. Even though he was more influenced by the material of some of the Delta Bluesmen, Lonnie could have held his own with some of the country singers in the USA at the time.

Alexis Korner was also a pioneer in his own way in the UK, he was very much lower key than Lonnie who was huge in popularity when I was a kid. Lonnie got music away from the dreary smooth balladeers of the day and gave it drive and energy.

Roy Heap · Post by **Roy Heap** » 5 Nov 2012 10:17 am

Great thread, keep it going , very interesting. I worked in a record shop in Chiswick High Road, Chiswick London around this time. And Lonnie's records sold like hot cakes. Great artist.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 5 Nov 2012 12:12 pm

When I was in London in 1968, we walked around Piccadily Square for days and we listened to records. In one store which was in the basement, we gave the records to a clerk and he played them for us. They had little booths (sp?)hanging on a wall side by side, and the sound (stereo) came out of little speakers. No headphones were needed!

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 5 Nov 2012 2:26 pm

Here's another good 'un - 'Cumberland Gap' - which was #1 in the UK for about six weeks in the UK in 1957. Great energy (although the song's original folk origins are a little obscured!) and a terrific solo from Denny Wright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liRCgKdbFGY

Jim Means · Post by **Jim Means** » 5 Nov 2012 4:11 pm

Roger,
I enjoyed the video. It seems that Skiffle would be murder on a bass player. My hands were hurting just listening to it!!

Great thread

Jim in Missouri

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 5 Nov 2012 4:41 pm

Yes, Jim, but they were clever arrangements and obviously recorded 'live' and with no overdubs. Notice how the various patterns weave together and the ensemble sounded 'bigger' than it actually was. I love the descending bass line at the end as Lon holds that G# and punctuates the finish with an E9 chord.

Both of the tracks I posted above featured Mickey Ashman on bass-fiddle - Mickey was (and is - I believe he's still with us and living in Harrow!) a highly respected player of the day; Lonnie recruited from the jazz world because he knew those guys from his days as a banjo-player in trad-jazz groups. At the point these records were cut he had three of the best musicians in London in his band.

And he definitely had little time for rock-and-rollers - he professed to detest that music! (Given his love of the blues I've always wondered about the truth of that - he surely must have admired the best of the Sun recordings like, say, 'Mystery Train'. Perhaps it was only British rock-and-roll that he hated!)