BIAB sounds like Carnival Music

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 10 Oct 2009 5:04 pm

I recently bought BIAB Pro hoping to capture the BIAB sound I heard @ the Dallas Convention. At that time I listened to David Wright and JayDee Maness in the MSA room. Aside from them both being amazing steel players......the BIAB arrangements they used for back-up, were lush and sounded like real studio muscians were on the tracks.

The version I purchased, (which also came with some 3rd party songs and styles) sounds like MIDI carnival music. Ray Price with a Merry-Go-Round back-up is just not very inspiring.

I noticed you can pay a boat-load of extra $$ to buy Real Tracks or RealBand. Can you "punch" those into any song or style and get studio sounding back-up tracks?

All I want to do is have killer tracks to play along with. Am I hoping for too much? or is the dippy circus vibe as good as it gets.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 10 Oct 2009 5:27 pm

You didn't say what ver. you have or where you got it,but it sounds like you may have an old midi ver.
Even that can be barely decent with a quality sound card.
But the Real Tracks [with A quality sound card]are very good.
I agree the midi doesn't doesn't do anything for me either.
Hopefuly someone will jump in and give you more help..

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 10 Oct 2009 8:04 pm

I've got BIAB for Mac 2009.5.

So what exactly do you have to do to get it to sound like real music...........do you need to buy?

-real tracks?

-real band?

-country pack?

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 10 Oct 2009 8:10 pm

BIAB sounds as good as your sound card. It also sounds lots better through an amp than through your computer speakers. Here's a video demonstrating how much better it can sound with Coyote Fortedxi. Click Here

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 10 Oct 2009 10:51 pm

Andy, thanks for your response. I've got a Mac Pro laptop, so no place for a sound card....but it's not the quality of the of the playback. It's that all the instruments sound synthesizer-like. I was hoping to get studio quality instrument sounds.

BTW I couldn't open your video. I only have quick-time and DVD player apps. For some reason they don't like it.

Graham · Post by **Graham** » 11 Oct 2009 5:46 am

Tony:
Get some Real Tracks and Real Drums style discs but just get the ones for the type of music you prefer to play. You can listen to examples of the different ones available on the PG website to help you decide which to get.

You may then want to invest in a USB powered external hard drive and load them on that so as not to put too much on your laptop hd.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 11 Oct 2009 5:57 am

All BIAB does is create MIDI signals.
The quality of your playback is dependent on your SOUND CARD!!! The better your sound card (or tone generator) the better it will sound. When I play out and use backup tracks I use an Edirol unit that cost me a few hundred dollars. I couple this with a pair of Peavey speaker enclosures and I get compliments all the time on the quality of the sound. A bass player even raved about the bass work.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 11 Oct 2009 8:22 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:All BIAB does is create MIDI signals.
The quality of your playback is dependent on your SOUND CARD!!! The better your sound card (or tone generator) the better it will sound. When I play out and use backup tracks I use an Edirol unit that cost me a few hundred dollars. I couple this with a pair of Peavey speaker enclosures and I get compliments all the time on the quality of the sound. A bass player even raved about the bass work.

Erv, thanks for your input. I'm not questioning the quality of sound reproduction. I have a lap top (so no sound card slot) and am using it with headphones. The sound quality is fine.

My problem is with the individual instruments. They all sound like a synthesized versions of the various instruments that BIAB is trying to portray. I want the sound of the "real instruments".

My question is: can I achieve that goal by buying all the country "RealTracks"?

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 11 Oct 2009 12:46 pm

I have my BIAB setup to substitute real drums whenever they sound as good or better than the midi drums. Then, if my rhythm track calls for some rhythm guitar I definately replace the midi with real tracks guitar. I also like to mute any other tracks that in my opinion cluter up the sound and usually keep it down to a good bass line, drums and rhythm, either guitr or piano. Keepin it simple really sounds the best to me.

Gary Baker · Post by **Gary Baker** » 11 Oct 2009 2:02 pm

Tony Glassman wrote:
Erv Niehaus wrote:All BIAB does is create MIDI signals.
The quality of your playback is dependent on your SOUND CARD!!! The better your sound card (or tone generator) the better it will sound. When I play out and use backup tracks I use an Edirol unit that cost me a few hundred dollars. I couple this with a pair of Peavey speaker enclosures and I get compliments all the time on the quality of the sound. A bass player even raved about the bass work.
Erv, thanks for your input. I'm not questioning the quality of sound reproduction. I have a lap top (so no sound card slot) and am using it with headphones. The sound quality is fine.

My problem is with the individual instruments. They all sound like a synthesized versions of the various instruments that BIAB is trying to portray. I want the sound of the "real instruments".

My question is: can I achieve that goal by buying all the country "RealTracks"?

Short answer = YES.

The reason what you have now sounds like a syntheiser is because it IS a synthesizer. You do have an audio card in your lap top and it has wave type files that sort of - kind of - sound like an instrument.

Most BIAB users will either install a high quality audio card or a stand alone unit. It's not the quality of the audio it's the quality of what is ON the audio card to make MIDI sounds.

So, in order to get the best sound out of your lap top and not upgrade anyting. Yes, use only Real Tracks and Real Drums.

Just be aware that there is a LOT of music out there that is not written for Real Tracks and if you want to use them you will need to "translate" them from MIDI Tracks to Real Tracks. Not difficult but time consumming.
Good Luck, Bo

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 11 Oct 2009 2:08 pm

BIAB comes with an excellent software sound synth. It's the Roland VSC. You have to install it separtely. It's on the BIAB CD. It only works with PC. I just switched my studio to MAC and I miss having it, but I love the MAC for other reasons and I've got other options for sound synths. I don't like the Coyote Forte sounds.

Real Tracks are wave files of actual sampled recordings of the instruments. Some sound good, some don't. You can't expect BIAB to replace a whole band. I use it mainly for drums, bass, and piano rhythms.

Decent headphones with a laptop sounds pretty good. If you want good sounds with speakers, you need to run it through an amp, like a home stereo aux in.

In my opinion, BIAB is the best invention for the home recording guys since affordable multitrack systems. You can set up a whole recording studio for the cost of one session of good studio musicians.

Have fun.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 15 Nov 2009 6:39 am

Real Tracks are wave files

Actually they're AIFF , .m4a and .bt0
FWIW.

A point to remember is that (Just like a car) it's only as good as the person behind the wheel..

This is what you'll get if you use "RealTracks"
You can turn off the steel if you wish or just leave it in to give you more backing..

Sample1

Sample2

Sample3

Sample4

Sample5

Sample6

Sample7

Sample8

Sample9

Sample10

Mike Castleberry · Post by **Mike Castleberry** » 17 Nov 2009 2:07 pm

Big Jim Barron (Calif) is the guru for Band In A Box. You get the real deal when you buy BIAB from Big Jim. Here's his email
bigjim4b@sbcglobal.net

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 2 Dec 2009 2:48 pm

I've been using Ban in a Box for backings and recordings since its inception in 1989, and in my opinion this update takes it to a completely new level.

More Demos, Be prepared to be AMAZED:-

Demo 01
Demo 02
Demo 03
Demo 04
Demo 05
Demo 06
Demo 07
Demo 08
Demo 09
Demo 10
Demo 11
Demo 12
Demo 13
Demo 14
Demo 15
Demo 16
Demo 17
Demo 18
Demo 19
Demo 20
Demo 21
Demo 22
Demo 23
Demo 24
Demo 25
Demo 26
Demo 27
Demo 28
Demo 29
Demo 30
Demo 31
Demo 32
Demo 33
Demo 34
Demo 35

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 6 Dec 2009 5:46 pm

Someone asked me to do a couple of rough backing tracks, what you call "Rhythm tracks" ... this is the result of about 30 minutes time spent using BIAB

1 BIAB full Mix

1 Track + fills

1 the bare Rhythm track

2 BIAB Mix

2 Track + fills

2 the bare Rhythm track

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 6 Dec 2009 7:27 pm

Basilh,

Great work. You're right it's not rocket science, but don't sell yourself short. I know the time you've put in to be able to generate these kinds of tracks on 30 minutes. Everybody's looking for the shortcuts, and want a program that goes like this:

Step 1: Type the name of the song you want the backing tracks for.

Step 2: Press Play.

That's not there yet, but it probably will be in the not too distant future.

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 6 Dec 2009 10:08 pm

Basil, you're on a Mac, right? If so, you using any extra sound stuff outside of the Mac's sound processing? Which Mac?

I think somebody could make some money making a DVD tutorial about how to use BIAB properly, I keep trying and getting frustrated. Never seem to have time to fiddle long enough, but also I gotta say the interface is still not very intuitive, and cluttered as all get-out.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 7 Dec 2009 7:20 am

Hi John, I'm using two macs, a G5 and a mini :-

Nothing external in THIS instance.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 7 Dec 2009 7:25 am

Basil: Don't you just use Band-in-a-Box for practice ? I can't imagine you're using it in live performances, and in your commercial recordings you use live musicians.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 7 Dec 2009 10:45 am

Not for live work Alan, I will only play with Pat.
As for practise ? what's that ...

I use BIAB for the foundation of commercial recording work that I do and I have done so since it's inception in 1989.
THIS album was produced/engineered/arranged/played most instruments by myself in 1990.
USING BIAB, a sound canvas Casio PG-380 midi guitar and whatever was in my sitting room in the way of recording equipment.

The Spanish Night is over
Blue Ridge Mountain Girl
Come Home to Belfast Town
Somebody Lied
Ramblin' Rose
Makin' Believe
The Band Played an Old Time waltz
Be Nobody's Darlin' but Mine
Island in the Sun
Funny Familiar Medley
Just enough to Keep me Hangim' on
Ol' What's His Name
Just a Closer Walk With Thee
Just as Long as You Love Me

Superb Singer from the Irish Showband Scene Roly Daniels.

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 7 Dec 2009 10:54 am

Superb Singer

Indeed!

BTW the link for Island in the Sun is incorrect

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 7 Dec 2009 12:16 pm

TNX OM, Corrected..

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 7 Dec 2009 1:05 pm

Who doesn't love a carnival?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 7 Dec 2009 5:26 pm

Dead right. It's NOT over

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 8 Dec 2009 5:28 pm

basilh wrote:...THIS album was produced/engineered/arranged/played most instruments by myself in 1990.
USING BIAB, a sound canvas Casio PG-380 midi guitar and whatever was in my sitting room in the way of recording equipment.

The Spanish Night is over
Blue Ridge Mountain Girl
Come Home to Belfast Town
Somebody Lied
Ramblin' Rose
Makin' Believe
The Band Played an Old Time waltz
Be Nobody's Darlin' but Mine
Island in the Sun
Funny Familiar Medley
Just enough to Keep me Hangim' on
Ol' What's His Name
Just a Closer Walk With Thee
Just as Long as You Love Me
Superb Singer from the Irish Showband Scene Roly Daniels.

Knowing how you don't like playing without Pat on rhythm guitar prompted my initial question.
I played through all the tracks. Were there additional musicians? I notice that there's a mandolin on some tracks and I was under the impression that you don't have a mandolin.