Steel guitar collections STINK!

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 2 Feb 2003 10:28 am

I'll apologize for the pun in advance, but this is a topic that resonates with me ...

It was nearly 30 years ago that I saw David Lindley holding a Rickenbacher B-6, and while I loved the sound, the overwhelming reaction that I had was that I really wanted to own one ... because it looked so incredibly cool.

The same feeling washed over me the first time I saw a National tricone ... another incredible example of industrial design that I admired visually as well as musically.

But I didn't buy either one. Unfortunately, much earlier in life I had become (mistakenly?) convinced that I had no musical talent. Add to that my personal notion -- that I couldn't own musical instruments unless I was going to play them -- and I never acted on the urge to acquire either one.

Last year, not long after lecturing one of my kids (again) about not being afraid to try things for fear of failure, I went out and bought a $169 Oahu electric, and began teaching myself to play. Within a few weeks I bought a roundneck set up as an acoustic lap steel. Before long, I was buying and selling, owning a Bakelite Kiesel, a Bronson squareneck and a Superior Hawaiian acoustic.

Once I convinced myself that I could and would play a lap steel, I had the good fortune of coming into contact with Paul Warnik, and became the proud owner of a 1931 National tricone. (Make note of the fact that he's a "collector" who regularly puts fine guitars into the hands of others. I don't recall if Paul ever asked me if I was going to play it, but we talked as much about tone as we did about aesthetics. I can also attest to the fact that Mike Perlowin only wants to sell his guitars to people who will play them, and I respect his stance. ... even if I'm not sure how he and others would "enforce" it when selling.)

My wife bought me a post-war Rickenbacker "Panda" B-6 for Christmas ... so not only have my visual dreams come true, but I also get the joy of playing one or the other (sometimes both) every day I can.

Guitars are pieces of visual art, as well as tools used by musical artists. While I've chosen to own them for both reasons, I have no problem with someone who only appreciates them for one or the other. Better than not appreciating them at all ...

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 2 Feb 2003 10:56 am

There's usually a world of difference between the way a musician thinks and the way a businessman thinks. If you believe a musical instrument's dollar value, for whatever reason, is more important than the music made with it and the enjoyment had from playing it then maybe you should find a business forum to chat on.

Blow someone's mind! (like your own or your wife's)

All of us have had people stand and watch in amazment as we set up our steels and start to play. We often hear these people say how much they love the steel guitar and how they always wanted to have one and learn to play. Why they didn't get one and learn to play may or may not be lack of money. But if you have a steel at home that you do not use, and it is not a rare "musium" piece, try this next time someone makes that kind of comment. Tell them you have an extra steel at home that they can have for free or dirt cheap as long as they make an honest attempt to learn to play it or else give it back.

I have no problem with collections of extremly rare guitars on public display but that's not what I'm talking about at all.

[This message was edited by Don McClellan on 02 February 2003 at 11:05 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 2 Feb 2003 11:43 am

The good thing about collections is that they preserve old instruments. Eventually the collectables do get sold, and when they finally reach a player they are in great condition. Hopefully, the player will recognize the priceless quality of the instrument, and designate it for "studio use only".

I'd rather see an antique Rick preserved in a collection than destroyed by a working musician who plays 6 gigs a week, or a kid who wants to "improve" it with Seymour Duncan pickups. Many musicians abuse instruments. I'm guilty of that myself, but I confine my abuse to modern instruments that have no collectable value. I hate seeing classic pieces destroyed by the wear and tear of hard use.

Modern instruments are generally cheap enough, especially on the used market. Let the collectors preserve our past. It doesn't cost the rest of us anything. That's my opinion.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic, Line6 Variax (coming soon)

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 2 Feb 2003 12:03 pm

Why they didn't get one and learn to play may or may not be lack of money.

That is correct. It's the LACK OF DESIRE.

Anyone who has the sincere desire, the incentive, and the drive, will make the effort and obtain the instrument. Therefore, there is no reason to give a guitar to someone who WILL NOT make the effort. If they will not make the effort to obtain one, they will not make a sincere effort to play one.

There is no shortage of affordable intstruments available today, new and used. If a person cannot afford one today, they may be able to afford one in three months by working and saving. That is how I bought my first Dobro over 30 years ago. I'm proud of that and wouldn't have it any other way.

Where there's a will, there's a way (also a relative

)

erik · Post by **erik** » 2 Feb 2003 12:21 pm

I think i read online somewhere that Randy Bachman was playing some gig when he was young and some unknown person handed him an original gold-top Les Paul, to keep. He ended up using it on many BTO hits. An example of someone recognizing that a great sounding guitar should be used and not stared at.

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 2 Feb 2003 12:58 pm

Bravo Erik!

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 2 Feb 2003 1:12 pm

When I first saw this thread .. all I could do was throw out a funny comment and just chalk it up to "another flame bait topic" ... but here is what I REALLY think ...

Don, if you are that interested in helping out "underprivilaged" musicians ... than take a que from Jimmy Carter and start a "Habitat for Humanity Type Program" and build starter steels for these folks ...

As far as my "museum" goes ...

Except for the '27 Tricone that I just bought from Paul Warnik ... EVERYONE of my 22 Rickenbachers are in MUCH BETTER condition NOW ... aesthetically and sonically ... than they were when I got them .... and they get played and enjoyed a whole lot more too ...

Last November ... with the guidance of a couple forumites ... I spent $$$ to buy the equipment and materials needed to bring back a "tool" that hadn't been made since 1941 and whose lack of availability has caused many "a good guitar" (Good not TRASHED) to be cannabilized ....

Now anyone who wants them can get 'em ... and they are every bit as good as the originals ... actually better !!!

Will I make my investment back ?? .. probably not ...

Am I enjoying being involved in this project ... BIGTIME !!!!

So, instead of starting a thread designed to chastise and belittle fellow forumites ... do something productive instead of destructive ...

Build, Finance or Organize ... talk is cheap!!!

[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 07 October 2004 at 05:25 AM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 2 Feb 2003 1:19 pm

I fail to see any connection whatsoever between passionate collection of beautiful instruments (to be used as the owner --and only the owner-- deems appropriate) and ones generosity.
If I do a solid for anyone else, you won't read about it. Nobody's business. Two separate and unrelated issues. All the preachin' in the world won't change that.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 2 Feb 2003 1:38 pm

It is a free country and to each his own. How about all those Beanie Baby collectors out there depriving some little child of a huggable little toy?

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 2 Feb 2003 1:51 pm

I have seen people from a certain "Far Eastern" country, known for its cars and electronics, buying guitars left and right, at shows, simply because the guitars were old, rare, whatever makes a guitar "collectible." Knowing taht these guitars were leaving the country, never to be played again, left a bad taste in my mouth. But I wonder, if guitar prices were what they USED to be, wouldn't MORE of us be collectors? I remember when a herringbone D-28 could be bought for a couple thousand dollars. I imagine some of you guys can remember when they were NEW(no offense).
I tell you what, if I turned off rich tomorrow, by the weekend I'd have three or four hundred instruments in my "collection." But then again, I collect pocket watches, too.

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 2 Feb 2003 2:15 pm

I also imagine that U.S. art collectors leave a bad taste in the mouths of many foreigners -- including those from that certain Far Eastern country -- when they scoop up art and antiquities and bring them back here.

I have little doubt that if guitar prices were what they used to be, many of the people on this forum would own more guitars ... and that some of today's "collectors" would sink their money into rare coins or stamps instead.

By the way, I collect canes ... but not out from under people who use them!

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 2 Feb 2003 2:53 pm

Hi Paul,yes,I`m gilty, my wife is complaining all the time about my horse trading,I guess I`m trying to find that special one that I would keep,guitar that is

.I just bought very nice and just complitly restored `72 Emmons p/p,walnut mica,8+5 and hope that I will keep this one.My wife is a big Emmons fan even tho she can`t play steel,but she can hear the tone.I`m thinking if I sell this one I better be prepared for a big fat argument with her.I would love to have few more guitars down the line.I would love to have a `66 Emmons,bolt on and also one or two nice Sho Bud`s.I think Professional would be my next buy.I`m also looking to buy Evans SE 200 and Webb 6-14 this year,but I want a new stuf.I have Session 500 and it is a great sounding amp.Why do I want all that?Have no clue why,don`t ask me.Am I a colector?Don`t know.I just love steel guitars.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 2 Feb 2003 3:02 pm

How about all those Beanie Baby collectors out there depriving some little child of a huggable little toy?

Yeah? Just try and take my Beanie Baby from me

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 2 Feb 2003 3:06 pm

Howard, you really should add rimshots to most of your posts ...

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 2 Feb 2003 3:52 pm

Howard were you ever a Moyle??

explain please what a Moyle is. ROTFLMYAO

edited. a Moyle makes BIG things smaller

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 02 February 2003 at 03:54 PM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 2 Feb 2003 7:04 pm

and a moyle makes plenty of tips

Well, you can always tell when a thread has been beaten into the ground....a ridiculous photo from me, followed by tongue & cheek humor from Jody. It's pretty much formula.

At any rate, this is a good time to mention something that I have announced several times in the past on the No Peddlers section.

Anyone who is in, or comes to NYC, feel free to contact me. You can try, play, and compare just about any guitar that I have. There have been about a half dozen instances where people who were on the fence about which steel to buy, or guitarists interested in playing steel, were able to make a decision based upon the experience of trying them out. You can compare a pre war Rick to a pre war Gibson to a pre war Harmos (we haven't marched off to Iraq yet). Want to compare a Tricone to a Benoit to a Melobro? Be my guest.

As far as giving away what I don't need, or selling my posessions off real cheap, I find no compelling reason on this entire thread to do anything of the sort. And if we didn't have BTO, I'd order a BLT.

Wake up and smell the catbox....Goodnight Mrs. Calabash,wherever you are.

[This message was edited by HowardR on 02 February 2003 at 07:07 PM.][This message was edited by HowardR on 02 February 2003 at 07:08 PM.]

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 2 Feb 2003 7:59 pm

Don, I understand your irritation but don't really sympathize since there are so many great instuments available and at good prices. UNLESS of course, you MUST have vintage "pieces" with all the cache of the antique whatever. If it's guitars you're talking about, they are reissuing those all the time, so you can buy pretty much anything, any style ever made. If it's vintage acoustic guitars, well OK, old is good but check out some of the fine instruments being made by all the majors these days. They're probably better than ever and many rival the tone of the 50 year-old guitars.

If it's pedal steel guitars we're talking about, I personally don't believe older is better, just cooler. But if it's "cool" we're after, nothing is cooler than any guitar played well. The cool of that out shines any push pull, herringbone, figured maple top, pre -war, pre-CBS, (add your favorite here), whatever. Of all the stuff I own, I only have one "classic" a Gibson J-45 made in 1966. It's sweet, sure but not any better than my '80s vintage Martin acoustic.

I guess it would be nice to hoard fine old stuff but for me, I can only afford to keep fresh strings on ONE pedal steel (and it's a S12U) plus that's all I have time to for at this juncture. I have more electric guitars than anything else (4). I find it kind of embarassing that I generally have to pick the one with the newest strings when I do a gig.

No offense to collectors intended. I go to the occasional guitar show and it's fun but someone onced told me at one show, "I've been coming to these guitar shows for about 15 years and you see all the same guitars every year, they're just owned by different guys and have higher price tags."
--JR

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 2 Feb 2003 8:12 pm

Howard
Does that offer include lunch at the Second
Ave Delicatessen???. Call Jon Light and ask
him to bring desert

"Got Milk??"

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 3 Feb 2003 6:14 am

Howard,Jody,
I had a Steel body,roundneck Dobro brand resonator guitar that I purchased around 1966.played it in a group I was with at the time,it rested about 20 yrs unused until a friend of my son saw it and went bonkers for it.At that time,I decided it should be enjoyed and sold it to him. He is a super blues player,he took it to a tech and had it setup for proper playability and you would think I had given him a new Corvette or something.The tech said he found #s to indicate it was mfg 1932,anyone have any idea of the value(aproximate).Guitar not mint but decent,case a little ratty.

Bill

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Bill Ford

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 3 Feb 2003 8:02 am

"I JUST LOVE STEEL GUITARS" Quote from Damir-I do too-and there was a time when my playing reached a plateau and to keep my interest going the need to learn about experiencing other types and models is what fueled my fire of desire to stay with the instruments-that started my collecting some twenty years ago-I wanted all that I could afford to get-since then another realization-I can only play one at a time and only a few of my very favorites are kept as the main players-so I did let some beauties from the collection go to others for them to enjoy-so I SOLD them-I agree with Herb and Chas-and to give them away would be a foolish waste of all that I have worked (and paid) for some of which would be saved for my future and retirement-I am not simply going to give that away to some shmuck who wants my guitar and cannot afford to buy it-I went to work at age 15 because I wanted to buy a Sho-Bud-NOBODY GAVE IT TO ME! That made me appreciate the guitar more-PAID FOR BY MY OWN HARD WORK

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 3 Feb 2003 8:09 am

The notion that collectors deprive child prodigies of opportunity is silly and so is some musician assigning "rights" to those who choose to own instruments.

By the logic underlying this thread, the only instrument I should be permitted to own is a player piano.

You can't go far wrong trusting the free market system.
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HagFan

[This message was edited by Ron Page on 03 February 2003 at 08:10 AM.]

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · Post by **Buck Grantham R.I.P.** » 3 Feb 2003 8:50 am

Isn't it wonderfull that we are a free country and we can do like we want to as long as it dosen't kill anyone else?[This message was edited by Buck Grantham on 03 February 2003 at 08:51 AM.]

Mike Weirauch · Post by **Mike Weirauch** » 3 Feb 2003 9:00 am

I really want an accordion(s).

Lots of them!!!

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 3 Feb 2003 9:50 am

Mike, try Junior Martin in Louisianna. He is the "squeeze box" king of Cajun acordians. A fine craftsman who also plays steel.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 3 Feb 2003 10:25 am

Hey Jody, I've heard of Moyle Haggard (you know, the guy who does the sloppy circumcisions).

Seriously, I am sure there are wealthy collectors who don't play at all who squirel away killer instruments (which are then never played). But all of the collectors I know do play to some degree (some are phenominal musicians). Even my fellow Seattlite Paul Allen (who has a monster collection) plays decent guitar.
I have way more steels than I need, and some might consider me a 'collector' but I regularly play all of them. For instance, I have a dobro, a great National tricone (purchased from Paul Warnik for a very fair price), and a new Weissenborn type guitar. All of them are potentially collectable, but I have them because they sound completely different, and each has a place in the studio.

I am really glad there are people like Paul Warnik or Herb Steiner collecting instruments, but also making instruments available to working players for a good price. Most of the collectors are like that. There's always something that they 'need' to add to their collection and are usually willing to part with pieces to buy the holy grail.

In terms of making good instruments available for young players, the last thing you would want to do is give a 'collectable' to a young player. He or she needs to have a decent working instrument that they can modify to suit their needs. A bunch of forum members helped get over a dozen steels in the hands of Sacred Steel young players over the last two years. Had we recieved a 'collectable' instrument we would have sold it and used to money to buy working instruments.

An example of a massive collection of instruments put to great use is the collection at the Experience Music Project in Seattle. Anybody can go through the exibits and hear the instruments played by masters (on recording). For example, Greg Leizs spend a couple days in Seattle recording some amazing sounding Nationals, dobros and lap steels. I'm glad those instruments aren't sitting in a bar somewhere, but are available for everybody to listen to.

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