IS BIGGER always BETTER?

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 9 Jul 2003 3:35 pm

Or is how you use it, that makes you a winner?
HUGE amps today seem to be the thing with their super power...however, I'm wondering if those true TONE FREAKS (like myself and one or two others out there)....have actually explored the possibilities of "smaller" being better?

This little Harmony amp I recently purchased, dating back to the early 1940's,
appears to have the same "innards" that any number of other amps had back in those days.
They seem to have varied from 5 to 7 tubes and lacked reverb and various other later design features.

But after several weeks now, I must tell you that if you're a Rick owner....you simply must try one of these older ROLA equipped amps with the 7 tube, 8 inch speaker set-up.
It'll not cut it in a ROCK CONCERT but when miked, it has a BIG SOUND!! The tone is unmatched with any of the other top of the line current models, even those with little stomp boxes, etc.

That little 8 inch speaker has a "special pop" so evident in JB's early day records and it sounds so clear with a full range on each string from the brightest treble to the lowest, biggest sounding bass I've ever heard. Even without the "reverb" it has the greatest sounds, so much so, I no longer miss the reverb.

If you're still chasing "TONE" after all these years, go down and try one in one of those music shops that specializes in "OLD" guitars and "amps". YOU MIGHT BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED! I can only boast about this model HARMONY amp, but it seems many other amps of that day had basically the same or similar system. One Forumite has told me they were nothing but "JUNK". However, I must have the only one on the face of the earth that I would have paid double the price to acquire.

Another point: I just ran across an ancient old "EPIPHONE" 12 inch ROLA Speaker system.
It has the SAME identical wooden cut-out with the BIG "E" centered therein, as did the early "VOLU-TONE" amps, like the one Jerry Byrd modified with his own initials which now hangs somewhere in one of the country music halls of fame.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Jul 2003 4:44 pm

I kind of like my Silverton guitar case amp. I just use my R3 with it and I'm all set. With all the stuff that's available there's not much need for big amps. A guy nowadays can have a Line6 Pod, earphones, and no amp at all, and get any amp sound he or she wants. I like the Line 6 Pre 64 with spring reverb setting. They have several settings.

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 11 July 2003 at 10:46 AM.]

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 9 Jul 2003 5:15 pm

I love my Fender Champ!
I put a nice Weber 8" Speaker in it, and with it's 6 and a half Watts of raw tube power, it is really nice to listen to.

I run it stereo with a Danelectro Nifty-Fifty (15W salid state, 8" speaker).

William Steward · Post by **William Steward** » 9 Jul 2003 7:14 pm

Ray...since you seem to be interested in the historic....do you know what Jerry Byrd may have used in the early Hank Williams sessions? There is almost a wah-wah effect on the guitar. Inquiring minds, etc.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 9 Jul 2003 8:05 pm

William.......unless someone with more knowledge than myself corrects me, I do believe I can say he was playing his 6 or possibly 7 string Rick Bakelite thro' his
little old Volu-Tone, tube amp. It possibly had an 8 inch speaker; JB says he's not really sure at this late date as he never looked in the back of the amp for any reason.
MAKES SENSE TO ME!
And Eric West.......I've been playing for MORE THAN 50 YEARS son, and we started out with small Gibson 7 tube/10-12 inch speakers.
The next one was a 4 -10's Fender, etc, which was about the time I first started playing pedal steel in 1956. When was it that you started playing pedal steel Eric, I seem to have forgotten. Uhmmmmmmmm?
Pete, you like that "BIG SOUND" right!?

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 9 Jul 2003 9:41 pm

If you have a chance to try an Evans AE-100, do it. I think you'll be impressed.

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Don Walters
Carter D-10 8p/6k BCT, Evans AE100, Hilton Pedal

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Jul 2003 10:51 pm

How long have I been playing?

I dunno. It depends on what the definition is.

Gotta run.

You're a GOOD PERSON Dogonne it!

People LIKE you!

[This message was edited by Eric West on 11 July 2003 at 10:39 AM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 11 Jul 2003 9:47 am

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 11 Jul 2003 10:00 am

I have a fender champ amp and a deluxe I really like. Ray, is there a model number and year on that Harmony amp, I'd like to find one. Thanks

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 11 Jul 2003 11:16 am

"A guy nowadays can have a Line6 Pod, earphones, and no amp at all, .."

That same guy can have a home recording setup, drum machine, etc. and produce a CD without the music actually hitting the air.

His listners can listen on MP# players and Walkman players via headphones.

Still no air moved...

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 11 Jul 2003 11:46 am

Joey...there is air moving, just not a far as if it was comming out of an amp.
JE:-)>

William Steward · Post by **William Steward** » 11 Jul 2003 5:33 pm

Ray - thanks for that info, you are a virtual encyclopedia of these strange instruments. An electric guitarist friend is also a big fan of the sound 'overdriven' tubes with a small amp/speaker and the proof is always in the pudding (he gets a great sound with some little old Fenders, Gibsons he has restored). I have always been intriqued with that wah-wah sound on those Hank Jerry Byrd recordings and wondered if it is just the effect produced by a pot volume pedal without a steel driver gizmo to correct the impedance? Will have to experiment!

Gary Slabaugh · Post by **Gary Slabaugh** » 11 Jul 2003 11:55 pm

I had been using a Nifty fifty and recently got a Fender Vibro Champ tube amp. The difference was amazing. Mine has low volume even though it has been upgraded with a new speaker. It does not matter for now, the tone is great.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 12 Jul 2003 3:11 am

Jerry used the tone control to get the wah effect. Later on he had a wah wah button on the guitar. I have one of these on my dickerson thaty I purchased from Fender many moons ago.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 12 Jul 2003 3:18 am

correction, I got the wah button from Rickenbacher. Some kind person looked throuch their trash and found it for me. No charge.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 12 Jul 2003 5:29 am

The fact that Ray found a nice old amp is comendable. My experience with some, (not all) of those cheaper amps back in their hey-days was the distrurbing distortion factor. The cheaper speakers just couldn't produce a clean sound, at least to my satisfaction. Perhaps I never found "Mr. Right" in amps back then. I was using low cost Harmony and Kay amps....(couldn't afford anything much better at the time). I was happy when amplifiers became greatly improved over the years...no more distortion and lots of reserve power. Strangely, today's rock generation love those old amps for their distortion value. If a modern amp doesn't produce distortion, they go out and buy distortion pedals. However most of today's amps now produce built-in distortion for that crowd. (Not for me!) It's been my experience that bigger is better except for the weight factor.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 12 Jul 2003 8:00 am

Not to infer that ANYONE is wrong....but what in the world is a Wah-wah button that Jerry Byrd had installed on his guitar??

Never heard of it; never saw any reference to it in many decades of JB's Steel Guitar Echoes Journals; can't find it on JB's Rick that's in the Country Music Hall of Fame.

Where was it installed? What's it look like? Just immensley curious. Just need the facts.......and all else, please, that relates to JB's Wah-wah button. MANY THANKS!

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 12 Jul 2003 8:31 am

I find it difficult to believe Jerry ever used gimmicks like that. I do recall him using an E-bow for a short period.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 12 Jul 2003 8:42 am

Jerry Byrd did use "gimmicks" (2) of them and
they were growing from his arms,often reffered to as (2) very talented hands.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 12 July 2003 at 04:25 PM.]

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 12 Jul 2003 9:32 am

here's a line of amps that's real compact

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Greg Simmons
Custodian of the Official Sho~Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Website

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 12 Jul 2003 9:55 am

the wah button or it was called a doo=wah button in those days was mounted near the vol and tone controls and was actuated by pushing down and letting up. This was much easier to do than wrap your pinky around the vol control. I don't know if Jerry used it but it was on his blonde Rick. If you have his man of steel album or his old course with the red cover, the doo-wah is clearly visable.Alot of guys that heard Speedy do his bar chatter could come close by using the doo=wah in reverse.As soon as I find a guy with some smart I'll post a picture of my dickerson with the doo-wah and I had forgotten that I also have one on my JB model blonde Rick.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 12 Jul 2003 10:21 am

One more word here as this has nothing to do with amps. If any of you have the PBS video showing various ctry singers, Ricky Skaggs was singing some of the orig Hank Williams songs, some of which Jerry played on and used the doowah effect with the tone control; and Kayton Roberts was on steel and he was doing the Jerry parts with the tone control. A master of this was Dwight Harris. If any of you have transcriptions of the old Casey Clark shows on WJR, Detroit, you can hear Dwight at his best. My favorite is Alabama Jubilee; reall fast; and he uses the wah effect all the way through the 2nd chorus.

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 12 Jul 2003 10:27 am

Bud Isaacs has had a push button for years. Even has one on his new GFI. Bud if you're lurching how bout telling us a little about how you use it. regards, fred

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 12 Jul 2003 1:50 pm

At a auction this week I got a old Lectrolab amp, made by Sound Projects Co. Six tube with 2 channels and Vibroto. Needs some work done on it, new filter maybe a tube and a clean up. I hope to get it working. The control panel is in the back just the speaker in the front.Us old timers remember the amp. being up front on stage we set up behind the amp,so we reached in front to set a control,remember back then there where no big mains up front. Joe

Jimmy Gibson · Post by **Jimmy Gibson** » 12 Jul 2003 2:47 pm

I know its not a valve amp and not been around that long but if you want to hear some thing that imho sounds as good as any amp,try a Peavey Bandit with a JBL D120 It has tone to the bone.

MSA U12 PEAVEY AND OTHER JUNK[This message was edited by Jimmy Gibson on 12 July 2003 at 03:48 PM.][This message was edited by Jimmy Gibson on 12 July 2003 at 03:48 PM.][This message was edited by Jimmy Gibson on 12 July 2003 at 03:49 PM.]