How do you keep practising on the tracks?

Bruno Rasmussen · Post by **Bruno Rasmussen** » 26 May 2003 11:53 pm

I have a fulltime job, and not at all the time I wish I had for the PSG. Nevertheless, all to often daily practise sessions unintended ends up like, playing a couple of random scales, a little of this and a little of that, and then some melodies I really don’t need to practise.
I wish I had the discipline to do all the ‘boring’ things I know I should.

Bruno

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 May 2003 1:19 am

Bruno, regular disiplined practice is very difficult..you are not alone.

It's like studying for a test..you really need to know what to study and how to study...and then actually study...

I use a checklist for the items that I really need to know..scales,phrases etc.. and then use some backup tracks that I recorded for what I want to know. These could be songs or just simple 12 bar rhythm
tracks ..In this manner I don't wander off until I have at least got the important stuff out of the way.

I do play the same thing over and over and over..but I am finding that the end results are looking up..

Repetition is the key..

I also play in two bands part time and that of course is a major factor as well.

good luck

tp

Bruce Clarke · Post by **Bruce Clarke** » 28 May 2003 10:33 am

I would like to suggest that scales can (and should) be made interesting, because "boring" repetition is usually counter productive. A scale can be played in triplets, or other rythmic groupings, starting on any note, going up or down, played in thirds, sixths, and so on. Play a scale, and follow with its tonic minor, then the relative minor/s. Fun time really.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 May 2003 11:48 am

Bruce..well spoken..

but the truth for me is I really don't mind playing scales..Like you stated , although they can be boring, they can be fun too..I do make a little game out of them and it keeps me on my toes..or rather..fingertips...

One thing is for certain..they are necessary..

tp

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 28 May 2003 7:37 pm

Bruno, like so many others, I don't practice as much as I should. I like to experiment to try to find ways to modify old licks to make them sound new, at least to me. Or I'll just start from scratch and try to come up with something completely original. My problem is remembering what I've learned long enough to apply them on a gig. Therefore, I generally focus on short phrases or general ideas.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill [This message was edited by Ken Williams on 28 May 2003 at 08:38 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 29 May 2003 2:56 am

I try to make sure I am on a trunk line or a siding where few trains pass...
I get so much more work done that way!

Seriously, I loop things in the sequencer and move it down the song in blocks after I have exhausted a chord patterns licks.
Then start again. Both the actual song, and modes and scales for the changes.

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 29 May 2003 8:10 am

I used to teach guitar, and people would always ask me how much they should practise, and I'd make up various answers. Now that I'm a little older and considerably crankier, I'd give them the "real" answer, which is:

"If you can keep your hands off the thing, you don't really want to play it."

The really good players I know are all obsessive practisers.

Bruce Clarke · Post by **Bruce Clarke** » 29 May 2003 8:33 am

This thread set me wondering. Forumites who have studied piano know that scales in contrary motion are part of the standard drills, and also will have discovered that this kind of thing is much more difficult on the steel guitar. Therefore we don't hear much of it, which is one reason I suppose that I for one appreciate the occasional example all the more. A nice little one is the start of Curly Chalker's intro to "Just one step away" by Hank Thompson, and there are a few beautiful bits in Tom Brumley's "Neosho waltz".
We have guys out there who are into experimenting with tunings and pedal rigs, and I wonder whether anyone has ever worked out a way of playing say a major scale over one octave in contrary motion.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 29 May 2003 11:32 am

At the risk of sounding R-E-A-L stupid,,,what is contrary motion??(being from the south, I know a lot of "contrary" people????

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 29 May 2003 4:47 pm

Here's my approach.

When I first sit down, I immediately start
doodling, noodling, call it what you may.

I try to play things I haven't tried before.
It's a challenge. I seem to find a picking
pattern, coupled with pedal/knee changes.

And as mentioned above, take just the major scale, for example, and BUILD it.

What does that mean? It means getting from,
for a simple example, from a low C to a high
C. We, by now I hope, can play the simple major scale from C to C.

You know where those notes are, right?

So, what's the rush? Think of the old classic song, I think, by the "Silouhettes".

And I think the song, also, was called
'Silouhettes'...later, done by Herman's
Hermits.

The signature guitar lick is a classic example of a scale walk-up. I can not furthur explain this in words. If you were to hear this, than I think you will see what a scale build-up is.

So after "warming-up", then I will tackle more challenging things.

My point is: you should mixup practice time.
It does not have to be all dullness.

If you start out with instructional material,
and then find yourself getting a bit miffed, then just stop! Start Noodling/Doodling - have some fun now.

Almost like a REAL job. You need coffee and lunch breaks.

FWIW...Chipper

Bruce Clarke · Post by **Bruce Clarke** » 30 May 2003 8:28 am

Sonny, your post asked a question, as mine did, and I don't think that makes either of us stupid. Contrary motion in musical terms is when one or more parts move in opposite directions at the same time. i.e. one going up and one going down. This is one of the standard things that composers and arrangers use because within certain rules it can sound very nice, as can parallel motion, and you know what that is. When you go from a G7 chord to a C major you are using contrary motion in the inner voices, the B note goes up to C and the F note goes down to E. Usually of course we are considering a more extended line. Keep asking those questions, I do.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 30 May 2003 8:51 am

Hey thanks Bruce,,,guess contrary motion has been a friend of mine all this time and I didn't know it's name.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 30 May 2003 9:13 am

....Contrary motion in musical terms is when one or more parts move in opposite directions at the same time. i.e. one going up and one going down.....

Me too........about 30 years ago I had a "contrary motion" pedal-pull on my Fender 1000 but didn't know that it had an official "name" until today!

www.genejones.com

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 30 May 2003 11:44 am

Gene, I think you just had the pedal backwards.
DeArmond should be facing you, so your can read the name.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 30 May 2003 1:34 pm

Anyone play "Chopsticks" on the steel?
(that is as far as I got on piano)

That moves in opposite directions, right?

Bruno Rasmussen · Post by **Bruno Rasmussen** » 31 May 2003 6:59 am

First I want to apologize for probably having you wander, sorry, wonder about the title of this tread. I guess when I wrote, “- on the tracks” maybe it should have been “- on the trail” – or? If both expressions turn out to be totally nonsense, I’m glad that some of you actually understood what I meant. I won’t deny that English is a foreign language, and I can not guarantee that linguistic mistakes will not occur occasionally in my posts to come; therefore I will now speak out a general apology for the future – “SORRY!”

Tony, - I totally agree with you about the need of structured practice. However, not being in a band, not being pushed by the expectations of someone, and not being able to keep a regular practice schedule, simply are not the best encouragement for discipline. (Confession)

Bruce, - I like your ideas for practising scales. At the conservatory, where I got my musical education, I don’t remember practising scales being the same as having fun.
If you could find the time, I suggest you should publish this book: “50 interesting ways to practice scales on the PSG”.
Contrary motion scales, would this not be covered by the musical term, counterpoint? http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint

Ken, - I can only recommend your E9th book; I think it’s excellent. I hope you are considering one for the C6th too.

Bruno

Bruce Clarke · Post by **Bruce Clarke** » 31 May 2003 9:35 am

Sonny, Those contrary type people can be found anywhere. I've never been to the U.S.A, but that southern accent is my favorite. Phil Harris doing "That's what I like about the South" and "Darktown poker club" have been with me since the 1940s and Andy Griffith is another class act. If you'all really talk like that I must try and get there.

Ron, just tried chopsticks on the steel, it plays OK , but I don't think it Qualifies as contrary motion. Plenty of motion but not enough contrary.

Bruno, that method of child torture that you mention has been responsible for turning untold numbers of kids away from musical instruments.Human beings do not enjoy doing boring things, and will avoid them if possible. So many people over the years have said to me "I did 5 years of piano lessons but gave it up, can't play a note" Something wrong somewhere?

Here are a few more ways with our scale. play it in even eigth notes, then dotted eighths. Accent each second note, each third note etc.Play it one one string, two strings and so on. How about in thirds with one voice louder than the other? (No, I can't do it either but you did ask)
The point is that this approach requires concentration, which is the opposite of boredom IMHO. By the way I got these ideas (and much more) from books and courses of various kinds. Yes Bruno I guess contrary motion comes under the general heading of counterpoint, pianists and organists use it all the time, but it is difficult on the steel.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 31 May 2003 1:20 pm

I often compose exclusively in chords and then tease the "front" melody out of several levels
of parallel interactive lines of melody in the complex motion of the chords.

This is also how I often work on the scales, but pulling different scalar lines out of a small chord pattern. Maybe I do florid counterpoint[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 31 May 2003 at 02:21 PM.]

Bruce Clarke · Post by **Bruce Clarke** » 1 Jun 2003 8:21 am

David, thanks for sharing your thoughts about composing, do you use a keyboard for that particular method? Likewise for yet another approach to scales. Just in case there are any forumites who have not heard B.E. doing the contrapuntal thing I will mention his multitracked recording of "Canon" by Jonann Pachelbel.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 1 Jun 2003 12:41 pm

AMEN to that Bruce,,,Canon in D as rendered by BE is one beautiful piece of work.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 2 Jun 2003 6:07 am

I go buggy in the head pretty quickly just practicing straight scales, so I also make a game out of it. There's something you can do that I think is called "interpolation" - play 1,3,2,4,3,5 etc. Play 1,2,3,4, then 2,3,4,5, 3,4,5,6 etc; 6,7,8, then 5,6,7 etc. Play groups of four notes in triplets and groups of three notes in 4/4. My new project is harmonizing a scale in thirds, fourths and fifths, below and above. There was a guy named "Bach" who got pretty snappy at that, but he didn't have all these confounded pedals to deal with.

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 2 Jun 2003 1:42 pm

Since you guys are on the topic of scales...

I'm new at this and am also wondering how (or to what extent) I should structure practicing. The thing that keeps me interested is playing songs. I figured out Bud's Bounce from the Winnie Winston book and that song alone gave me enough ideas for licks to procrastinate about scales for weeks

So, first of all, is there anything 'wrong' with lick-based learning? I mean, If I'm in the right key and making music, why would the knowledge of a scale help? And besides, won't the scales become more visually obvious the more songs I learn?

And...

When you guys practice scales, do you run them in several positions, perhaps moving vertically and horizontally around the fretboard? I'm becoming increasingly overwhelmed by the sheer number of different ways to play EVERYTHING on this contraption.

Bruce Clarke · Post by **Bruce Clarke** » 3 Jun 2003 10:19 am

Tony, I think most experienced musicians will agree that it is a good idea to structure your practice, thus avoiding wasting time and effort, and past threads on this forum contain plenty of good advice.
You learned "Buds bounce" from tab, and how could there possibly be anything wrong with that? It worked, and it worked because you you wanted to learn it, in other words you were interested,and you saw results. Interest is the main factor in learning and remembering anything.When we really want to do something, it's fun , and never boring. So, carry on with your lick based learning.

In that instance, scales wouldn't have helped much,but if, for instance you want to do a few improvised (jazz?) choruses on Bud's famous little number they could be quite useful.

Scales are the foundation of the harmonic system on which European and American music is based. If, for instance, you wish to learn a piece from a recording, with or without writing it down (chords included), you need a knowledge of harmony ,and a very early step in that process is scales. If you go for it, and believe me it is not difficult, you will find yourself playing a scale or three, and discover that they sound real nice.

Furthermore, as I think you have already discovered, bits of them appear all over the place when we are playing tunes, so if you are already familiar with the fingering---need I go on.
So, I suggest, (because you did ask about these things) a maximum of ten minutes per practice session on scales . You can do it all at one go, or split it up as and when you feel the urge. This thread already contains enough ideas on how to go about the actual practising of scales.

Yes, we know about the guys who play great guitar and don't know any musical theory, and Mozart and Artur Rubenstein could hear a piece performed and immediately reproduce it, and remember it forever, but this thread is about you and me and most of the other guys and gals out there. Theory is to help us know what we're doing, and thus help us to play better.

Being as you say new to this whole thing, have you ever wondered why the frets on your guitar are where they are?. Put your bar on any fret,any string and go up a fret at a time, three or four frets or up to Hughey country, and you have played a chromatic scale. Didn't hurt a bit. Why is it called that? It's in the book!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 4 Jun 2003 3:06 am

I think that "free" playing is an important part of every practice session (except those days when your brain just sucks), but I find that everything I work on in the structured times - horizontal and vertical scales, picking patterns, harmonized lines, etc. shows up in the free playing. It is supposed to be fun after all.