Musicians Union pro/con

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 4 May 2003 6:47 am

How many of you are in or have been in the union? Has it been worth it to you? Does your local have an "available" list or news letter to help you get work? I have to say in my 20 years in the Louisville local I was recommended many times from the local to people needing a drummer but the one time I needed them to collect payment from a club owner they didn't get me a dime and didn't make much effort. On the other hand they could fine members for any infraction. All in all I'd have to say I've made as much money without the union and the dues. If you're not playing in TV or a major studio situation do you think the union is really necessary? Would you join it again?

Larry Clark · Post by **Larry Clark** » 4 May 2003 7:04 am

Here's a link to a similar thread from the archives.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Archives/Archive-000003/HTML/20011227-1-008560.html

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 4 May 2003 9:10 am

Here's another similar thread.

Thread regarding Musicians Union

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 4 May 2003 9:29 am

I joined in 1947, (am now a Life Member). Many confuse the Union as being a booking agent, which is not the case. I must admit, the Union has done very little for me except for the fact a few really worthy gigs on TV, radio would not have come my way were I non-union. About all the Union guarantees me now is the assurance they will pickup my burial costs. I have always gotten away playing with non-union bands and musicians. But the one thing I always insisted upom is 'better-than-scale'. Frankly, if I were starting up again today, I'd think twice about joining.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 May 2003 9:43 am

I quit when I realized that the dues were a net loss. The benefits were nil. Any gigs they tossed my way weren't worth playing. Scale was pitiful.

I imagine it's different if you're in the recording industry, but in Santa Rosa there's no reason to be in the AFM.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 4 May 2003 9:45 am

After about 32 yrs., the sizeable "Funeral Benefit" is all that keeps me hangin' on! Now, I can't afford to quit! And I just don't want to collect right now either! "Big John" http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 4 May 2003 9:58 am

It is very easy, when thinking about the relevance of the union, to think of it from strictly your own perspective, without considering all the different angles union members might come from.
In my area, it's never been difficult for a country picker or a rock & roll musician to make at least $100 a night. It is these same players who (rightfully) say "Why do I need the union?" Well, you don't, I guess.
But if you were a symphony cat, that spent his life learning the cello or something, you might be glad there was somebody there to at least identify a fair minimum wage.
In this district, most of the union members are symphony people, jazz musicians, and gov't/military band members.
I am not a trade unionist sort of person by nature, but I've been a member of Local 180 for many years. If you get a couple of mptf gigs, and you use the other resources available to you through membership (i.e. instrument insurance, discount cards for purchases, equipment loans, etc) it can easily pay your dues.
There may be some geographical differences, I'm sure. My experience with the union has been positive though.
-John
p.s. In the other thread, there was mention made of the office staff picking up all the referral gigs. I know this is unfair, and I've heard it from almost every local. -J

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 4 May 2003 10:34 am

I have told this story many times even once on the Forum I thought. Way back in about 70-71 a amusement park in New England brought in Webb Pierce and Webb flew up by himself with an agreement the Park would provide an acceptable backup band. Well the Park called the "UNion" and was guaranteed Webb would have acceptable backup.We were playing up the road so we decided to take in Webbs first show at 1pm. What we witnessed was a pissed off Webb and a joke of a band..The president of the local decided to use his band consisting of other Officers.What made this funny was they showed up with an accordian,drums,bass,and sax.It was the presidents (Polka band).Webb did one song told a joke and rushed up to the park office.I followed and stayed within earshot then I moved in at the right moment and told the Manager I could have my band on that stage in 20 minutes and we did.Only we worked the 5 and 730 pm show. Webb came to the club with us after and we partied until I drove him to the airport in the AM. I wound up backing up any uncontained artist at that park for many years.The Union approached me about joining or they would penalize the park..I gave him 1 minute to leave the area. Never seen him again.

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CJC

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 May 2003 10:52 am

"Hi and howdy doody I'm the union man you can call me Rudy
All of you boys, all paid up on your dues.
Gee I'm glad to meet ya, been try all day ta greet ya
The unions here to help every one a you rockin roll stars" *

* Frank Zappa[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 May 2003 at 11:52 AM.]

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 4 May 2003 10:54 am

It's a mixed bag; I've been a member of 257 for 30+years. Joined cause it was required in 60's & 70's to work the Opry. I stayed in after moving back to Ohio mainly for the insurance. Cannot beat the deal they have.

Joined Local 4 in Cleveland, OH, to put a pedao steel player in the book. Still in 257, though. Probably die in it.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 4 May 2003 11:19 am

I hit this thread as I am sitting at my desk processing the union contracts for all the musicians I used in Nashville a week ago on a record I am producing. A lot of paperwork, but I don't mind. I think the union is good for the recording musicians, and have never had a problem adhering as a signatory employer. (Or when receiving checks as a player myself.) They have bent in the Limited Pressing/Low Budget agreements where you can work on the card at a reasonable rate where needed, and still comply. I have no problem contributing to pension funds and health and welfare. I doubt they do much for the club/live player there though.

The union here in Denver basically serves the symphony and theatre scene, and beyond that, everyone pretty much ignores them. All the gigs I play are waaay over scale rate, and paying work dues on them would not make me happy (though I have no problem paying them on session/tv checks).

So I guess it depends on the situation....

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 4 May 2003 2:54 pm

When our union trio moved from NY to SF, Ca in the early 70's, we stopped at the union office to check things out. They said we were not allowed to play anywhere, anytime in SF.

They advised us we could turn in our local union cards, stay out of the business for 6 months, and then get a card for the SF local. Maybe.

We naturally told them what to kiss, and headed south for LA. In a month we had an agent and traveled back north to play road gigs, tho none were in SF. On our return to LA we played the Beverly Hillcrest hotel in Beverly Hills. All this as a traveling band under union contract.

We eventually split up as my family was flying out. They went back on the road, I went back to engineering. In the ensuing 20 years, playing as much as I could handle, I played two union gigs. One subbing for Al Bruno (with the late John Paul) and one somewhere in Ventura county.

About 2000 I got my dues letter two months late. Like I need this? I resigned my membership. Goodbye stone around my neck.

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 4 May 2003 6:16 pm

When I moved to NashVILE in '68,I was "coerced" into joining the "loco",by the "honorable" Geo. Cooper,prez at the time.
Of the 6 yrs. I worked at Opryland Park,I remember 1 season we had a guitar player who,not only didn't belong to the Nashville local,he didn't belong to ANY union. He got paid the same amount as me. I had to pay local work dues,he didn't! Nothing was ever said. But,yet,YOU play w/ some non-union picker,& see how fast they chastise you!! RE:MPTF jobs,I figured it out one time. I averaged 1 job every 2 1/2 years. It was politics. If you knew the "MPTF Lady", you got the work. If you didn't,you didn't! That simple! I retired 3 yrs. ago,at 62. When I retired,I also resigned from the union,(in good standing.) It cost me $16 to get out. Best $16 I ever spent!!

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<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

[This message was edited by Smiley Roberts on 04 May 2003 at 07:19 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 May 2003 7:30 am

"Musicians Union pro/con"

Yup! From what I'm reading, the musician's unions have a lot of "pros", some "cons", and probably some "amateurs", too!

Michael Brewer · Post by **Michael Brewer** » 5 May 2003 10:49 am

I joined Local 47 in 1956. That's Los Angeles for those not familiar. In those days if you wanted to work in one of the clubs or do any TV it was necessary. The union was very powerful then. Union scale then was $14.20 for five hours. They never did anything for me but they did make sure they collected 2% work dues every month. I left the union and only recently reinstated in the new Local 777 at Biloxi, MS.

They are still not providing any real support. The secretary gets all the calls wanting musicians and books his own band or one using his wife's name. I get a few jobs but that is because I am the only tenor banjo player in the book.

My recommendation is "save your money"'.

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Mike Brewer

Miguel e Smith · Post by **Miguel e Smith** » 5 May 2003 1:21 pm

I agree with most of the statements already written. The "pros" that I appreciate are the collective bargaining and the associated 'scale' and pension fund as well as the death benefits. With the exception of symphony members, the only other true beneficiaries are studio players. The collective bargaining for live situations is very ineffective (and low).
If the death benefit was all you were looking for, I believe a good savings or investment account would probably serve you better (or low cost term insurance).
The "benefits" the AFM offers (insurance, discounts, etc..) are not exceptional and many times not even competitive. AFTRA (for singers/announcers)members have much better in-house bemefits.
I'd say if you are looking to do studio work or regular film/TV dates, join because it's a must. Otherwise, bargain for the live stuff yourself. You'll probably come out far better.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 5 May 2003 1:23 pm

Aside from vigorous collection of "dues", even on the job site, the AFM-#99 did nothing for me!

Most of the top players/members at the time, were still playing non-union gigs.

I understand their instrument insurance coverage is today, quite beneficial.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 5 May 2003 1:53 pm

The A.F. of M. is like the weather. Everybody complains about it, but nobody does anything about it.

Bob Cox · Post by **Bob Cox** » 11 May 2003 6:49 am

I am on the E board of local 482 AFOM.I have also been a union pipefitter for 26 years.Recently the union stood its ground in NYC protesting Karioki tapes and were able to keep the players in the theaters.Had the theaters won out this would spread to vegas and other music venues and the pickers would sit the bench listening to pre recorded background.Its victories like this that protect us.Our local recently visited county schools and demostrated various instruments,and the steel was one of them.These are some good examples I have to offer of the ways it helps us.