Time

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 10 Apr 2003 8:26 pm

Well, I set and listened on my computer speakers a couple of times ( they are really small and pretty much cuts out most of the bass tones) and here's what I come up with.
To start with we know it's not tracks 6 and 11,,,they are Dobro. Tracks 2, 4, 8, 9 and 10 have a little different "tembre" about them and I hear some for sure splits on 8 and 10. I'm undecided about 5. So, that leaves 1, 3, 7 and 12 for the push pull. 12 sounds like it is C-6 with more cut than I'm used to hearing in the last few years from Buddy on C-6.
I also consider the attack, execution, choice of voiceings and characteristics that I think the push pull has that an all pull does not have. I'm not at all saying that one is better than the other, just that I hear some differences in tone and the other things I mentioned.
They are all great tracks and I don't care if he was playing a 2X6,,,,it's Buddy as only Buddy can be.
There are other factors, boardmen/engineers, that must be considered too.
If the Standel has the warmer sound, then I would have to reverse what I said above and go with 2, 4, 5 and 9 as the push pull. But I think I'm right on my first choices.
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 11 Apr 2003 5:26 am

So your are saying he didn,t play my Carter

Joe

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 11 Apr 2003 11:47 am

Bobby....
Thanks for your input. When I get a chance, I will listen to the CD again and see if I can hear it.

------------------
Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

Len Ryder · Post by **Len Ryder** » 12 Apr 2003 9:24 am

There are great "Stylist's as we all know. The Greens',the Days', but a true "Master" comes around very infrequently. Buddy Emmons truly is "One Of A Kind".
As for the title song, "Time". Those of us who are nearing the "twilight years" can very much relate to "Time Is A Monster".
The author, Max D. Barnes surely has an approach with lyrics that many of us should envy.
And while we're handing out kudos let's not forget the "Master" of phrasing and quality ---- Ray Price.

Len Ryder
Princeton. B.C.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 18 Apr 2003 11:49 pm

Well, I'm gonna stand behind my ole buddy BB, and say that frankly, I find huge differences in the steel tones on this recording, track to track.
Without splitting hairs, I'd be willing to bet that track 4 was an all-pull (take back your old love letters), and track 5, suddenly alive with sparkle and free of the punkiness in tone from track 4, had to be a push-pull. Those two tracks, back to back, to me show two different approaches to tone. I might just as well be mistaken, I don't profess to be an expert on the matter. I also realize one is C6 and the other E9, but I'm still willing to stake a guess.

BE, if you're reading this, you're still my favourite, whether you're pushing or pulling.
Rob Hajacos' fiddle work stands out like a gunshot at midnight. He's a fine player, but that vibrato thing he's used to a fault in the last 10 years kinda gets on my back. Too much of a good thing, I suppose. The other fiddle players speak to me more.

The other thing I have to mention is, I rather expected Ray to sound kinda dried up... he sounds great!
And, of course, Acoustic Basses Rule !
So, that's my from-the-hip assessement after 4 or 5 listens.
Release the hounds.

-John [This message was edited by John Steele on 19 April 2003 at 12:56 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Apr 2003 6:56 am

Well it's the 19th and I STILL haven't gotten my CD back from the singer since before the 4th. DRAT. But a great tribute to Ray's singing and choice of songs!

We engineer types can mess with overall tone, and accent some of the harmonics body, but not the subtile harmonics of a particular instrument.
Compress it, Eq. it, change volume, and add sonic maximizers, sure.
But we can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, or a Les Paul sound like a Tele.
Or a French horn sound like a Crumhorn.

I listened to the CD 4-5 times on the Genelec studio monitors and I remember hearing different steel tone, over and above C6 vs E9. But I can't say what tracks. I wasn't listening for this change of steel in mid session at the time.
But I do out of habit listen to the MIX as much as the music... What was the production team doing to get that sound?
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 April 2003 at 07:58 AM.]

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 20 Apr 2003 12:47 pm

I would include track 5 as a PP too, except for one place that I think I hear a split. Knowing how Buddy can "pull" things off sometimes, (well, not me actually knowing how he does it, just that I know that he can) it wouldn't surprise if track 5 is in fact a push pull.
I'm a little surprized that more of you guys and gals haven't kicked in your opinions on this.
To my ear, the differences are definitely there in both tone and type of "called on"
execution.
Right or wrong,,,,it's a lot of fun for me to be apart of the challenge. It also serves to "expose" the worst and "pull out" the best of me in my own approach to playing and interpreting musical feelings and expressions as it applies to me and my instrument.
Learning and expanding to better technics and execution can and should come from many sources. I like to take advantage of as many as I can.
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Kenny Yates · Post by **Kenny Yates** » 20 Apr 2003 5:14 pm

Everyone is wrong so far, you are assumming that Buddy Emmons is a steel guitarist, wrong, Buddy is a mass hypnotist. No steel guitarist could play that perfect and so close that you can't tell a pp when you hear one. The only conclusion left is that Buddy is a mass hypnotist.....That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Apr 2003 3:07 pm

Well, if it isn't immediately and grossly obvious exactly which cuts are the p/p, (and obviously, it isn't), then all that talk about the "famous p/p sound" is...

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 21 Apr 2003 4:37 pm

Donny,
Perhaps you have not listened to the CD? Everything on it, steelguitarwise is "signature Buddy Emmons",,,even some newer Emmons' signatures. If you know about and have followed Buddy's playing over the years, then you probably realize that Buddy can make most any instrument sound "like Buddy". The challenge from a previous post is "can we pick out which cuts were the PP?".
It's mostly meant to be a fun thing and not something that will go down in the steel guitar book of historical facts.
Listen to the CD and maybe you'll have some fun too, while at the same time, find yourself very entertained by a great album.
BB
I spelled Donny with an ie instead of a y.
------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

[This message was edited by Bobby Bowman on 21 April 2003 at 05:47 PM.]

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 21 Apr 2003 6:15 pm

most telling is that E is responding to other threads than this

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 22 Apr 2003 1:54 pm

Good point Ebb. I wonder if E is up to some of his old tricks here?

Anyway, it's fun for me!
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Buddy Emmons · Post by **Buddy Emmons** » 22 Apr 2003 2:33 pm

Actually, there's nothing more I can add to my original statement, which is I have no idea which songs were recorded the day I used the push pull. If I were to listen to the album there's a good chance I could tell, because there's not only a slight edge in sound, but an edge in perfomance brought on by the sound.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 22 Apr 2003 2:46 pm

Cheeze,
That's what I looked for and think I hear in those cuts I mentioned.
BB

------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 22 Apr 2003 2:51 pm

Bobby, It's hard to contain my excitement after reading Buddy's last post!

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 23 Apr 2003 8:52 pm

I just wanted to say, it was immediately and grossly obvious to me that the dobro on track 11 was a push pull.

-John

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 23 Apr 2003 9:22 pm

I know what you mean Randy.

!
BB
ps: check your Email
------------------
If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

[This message was edited by Bobby Bowman on 23 April 2003 at 10:23 PM.]

Tommy Minniear · Post by **Tommy Minniear** » 24 Apr 2003 6:36 am

Now! This is the kind of thread that makes visiting the Steel Guitar Forum fun! I am enjoying this and the CD!

------------------
Tommy Minniear
www.ntsga.com

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 26 Apr 2003 7:37 pm

To stray slightly off topic, I've been thinking about this...
There's a couple of perennial comments drawn like pistols during any of these conversations. They would be:
1) Buddy Emmons would sound good on a 2X4 strung with binder twine.
Sorry, I don't buy that. I'd really have to see that to believe it. I've got the twine if someone will bring the board.
2) It's all in the hands.
Well, on that point you've got to stop and reflect. Maybe some will disagree, but to me a musical instrument is (hopefully) a living, breathing thing.. it has a pulse, and a heartbeat, that you can only discern by physical contact. The point of physical contact with any instrument is invariably your hands...
Try to tell a piano player that a keyboard feels like a piano. Ask them about the response they feel through their hands... they'll tell you.
Try to tell an acoustic guitarist that an electric must "feel" the same. They'll likely tell you that latching onto the feeling of a pickup, versus latching onto the feeling of an Instrument is a different thing.
The endless number of variables in the recording process makes the whole guessing game in this case rather academic.
I've sat silently reading the debate for a long time, so I guess it's time I cast my ballot. I play a push pull, 'cause I like the sound, and the feel of it. That's not to say that I think you should play one. Everyone should play the instrument that suits their needs and priorities. As I said to Jerry Brightman a while ago, when I meet another steel player, I don't really care what brand he's playing, I'm just glad he does.
Push pulls can be a Capital Pink Pain in the Butt sometimes...yep...
Who here would argue that homemade bread tastes alot better than store-bought ? How many of those people would go through the the trouble of baking it ?

-John
At last. Man, I feel so completely unburdened now...

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 27 Apr 2003 2:03 am

Buddy Emmons would sound good on a 2X4 strung with binder twine. Sorry, I don't buy that. I'd really have to see that to believe it. I've got the twine if someone will bring the board.

Actually I do think so, a 6 string lapsteel with piezio pickups in the bridge and some tuners on a 2x4.
Since Buddy comes from the prepedal days, he would just find a tuning that the twine strength supported and make music on it. This is not so far from the old acoustic guitar strings of yor. Catgut anyone?

With the exception of the actual type of strings this ain't far from a lapsteel. A non metal string and different pickup would give a different tone.
But I am sure he could make something muscal on it. As good as a push pull or a Bakelite, well.....no, but musical, sure why not.

My singer still hasn't returned "Time". I may have to charge him and buy another. He likes it more and more... and refuses to return it toute de suite.
A nice tribute to Ray, and Buddy too.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 27 April 2003 at 03:08 AM.]

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 28 Apr 2003 12:49 am

What first comes to mind now, and I just speaK for myself;

TONE IS IN THE HANDS!!!

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 2 May 2003 7:02 am

Just got my copy of TIME, I love it great pickers all over it, and the singing is not bad either. If you can tell what guitar Buddy is playing you are a better man than me. It all sounds great to me.