what's wrong with us ??

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 7 Feb 2003 10:43 pm

why is it, whatever band you are playing with, there is so much resentment toward the steel man by some..?? are we bad people, bad players, or is it that we "MIGHT" be the only ones up there that have any idea of how the song is played..?? did I leave out our "bad attitude"...??

tom

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 7 Feb 2003 11:09 pm

sometimes they're jealous...

sometimes we're too loud and out-of-tune...

sometimes both!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 8 Feb 2003 1:23 am

By "some" do you mean lead guitar players? We've all seen players whose attitude was that "I don't know what that thing is or what it does, but I play LEAD guitar. All the leads, all the fills, all the time. Your job is to stay out of my way."

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 8 Feb 2003 5:31 am

I don't know how you guys learn the songs your bands play, I buy the CD's...I'm not trying to play it like Buddy or Paul, but just make it recognizable to the folks...if you dare say, "it's to fast or not the right beat", you might as well have slapped them in the face...

Mike I see you've been there...LOUD, I hate playing loud..UNLESS they want give me my time then I just take it...I work day in and day out on knee and pedal moves, with slants..all to be covered up by some clown who has to borrow an amp even to play the blame show......sorry guys, my age is beginning to show,,,,we all need each other, why in the world can't we get along better....tom

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 8 Feb 2003 5:54 am

Tom,
I think jealousy does enter in to it somewhat because our Steels are harder to play then the other instruments in the band.
The problem I always had was the others wanting to play Rock and I was wanting to play Country Music. That's the reason I started my own band about 8 months ago. They work for me, I book the gigs, I hire who I want. They do it my way or they don't do it with me. Nick

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 8 Feb 2003 6:11 am

I think overall that steel players are a little more picky about how the song should be done. I know I am and that causes problems sometimes with narrow-minded band members. Kind of like the "I have played this way for 30 years and I'm not changing it now" type. I don't care what I play for music, just play the changes and the right beat and tempo. So many players are willing to go for the attitude of being close enough.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 8 Feb 2003 6:19 am

I wouldn't call it resentment but rather just plain confusion. It should be interesting to see what happens in our band. I gave them all a tape last week of the tune Big Beaver to learn. To rehearse would be asking too much but we'll see what happens tonight. As for them wanting to know what this thing is I'm playing, some think it's a keyboard and some think it's an electric ironing board. I'm sure it's an electric pineapple slicing machine.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 8 Feb 2003 7:39 am

I remember setting in with a group (couldn't call them a band) one night in Phoenix maaaany year ago. The lead player got so POd that he jerked his cord out of the amp, threw his guitar in the case and stomped out. BTW, everything really went better after he left! Couldn't have been anything I did!

Erv

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 8 Feb 2003 7:46 am

I think that everyone who spends thousands of dollars to buy a thing with 20 (or more) strings,8 (or more) pedals and 5 (or more)some levers that he has to play with his knees, must be crazy individual (with self destructive feelings).Not to mention that he`ll sound like crap and out of tune for the next 10 years and will take at least 20 years of his life to master it (if he is lucky enough).And after all that, he have to be ready to cary around those 50,60 or 80 pounds things (plus all the gear that comes with it)to the gig where he makes 20 bucks for 4 hours (Nashville)and has to put up with a lead players crap.Or (again if he`s lucky enough)he can land a gig in North Dakota and make 350 bucks playing some honky-tonk 1000 miles away from his home,six nites a week.Now,you tell me that something is not right with us.

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 8 Feb 2003 8:20 am

BUT ain't we having a good time ????

tom

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 8 Feb 2003 8:32 am

Nick Reed had the right idea. The steel player should hve his own band and hire the singer and lead guitar player. Why not?
The guy that gets the club job is usually boss. So go out and get your own job! You will then be the boss......al

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 8 Feb 2003 8:55 am

Some of these guitar owners should watch the old Wilburn Bros. TV show where Hal Rugg played nearly everything and they didn't even have a guitar.

C#

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 8 Feb 2003 9:00 am

Cal-what time does it come on?I'll watch it...Your friend,Steve

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 8 Feb 2003 11:01 am

I don't know who you guys are playing with but all the bands I play with are glad to have a steel in the band - they know exactly what it is and how it works and graciously make musical room for it.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 8 Feb 2003 11:49 am

Steve - I wish it came on. CMT should run those old TV shows, some of the best ever.

C#

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 8 Feb 2003 12:01 pm

Two things can help a steel player.

First, be able to effectively handle it if some bandmembers do not show up and it is just you on steel, a bass player and a drummer or rhythm guitarist.

If you are one of the ones who does your best playing by "laying out," then that says it all no matter what some of the steel instructor propagandists may teach. Sorry, but there are advantages to knowing how to "overplay."

Secondly, if you play lead guitar yourself and can easily go between the two instruments during a song.

If you are good enough on lead, then this can really turn the tables on the other band members when the band starts letting some members go because they cannot afford to have all the players. The band is likely to keep a quality steel/lead man.

There are not too many who are competent on both instruments as well as being able to play both in the same song seamlessly--quickly lay the bar down on the C6 keyhead, play lead, pick it back up and play steel again.

I just have yet to figure out how to twin with myself on lead and steel!

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Frank Estes - 1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 8 Feb 2003 2:11 pm

The ones I like are the bass players or guitar players that seem to think they know more about playing drums than the drummer. This very morning the bass player was trying to tell the drummer how he was playing it all wrong. The drummer is trying to do like the guitar player asked and now the bass player is throwing his .02 in. The drummer asked me since I play drums too and I told him "They hired you to play drums. Play drums the way you know is right and let them fight about it amongst themselves". If you hire a guy to play the drums then get out of his way and let him play or just get somebody else. What is it with everybody thinking they know more about playing drums than the drummer? Fortunately I never got that when I played drums and wouldn't have stood for it either. Next time you think you know more than the drummer or anybody else for that matter, think how you would feel if this guy came over to try and tell you how to play steel!

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 8 Feb 2003 2:43 pm

Frank: I had a lead player tell me what to play one night, so I asked him to sit down and show me exactly how he wanted it.

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 8 Feb 2003 3:59 pm

Frank: I had a guy come up to me one night and say, "I've never seen one of those table top guitars before. That thing sure sounds good". Eddie

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 8 Feb 2003 4:08 pm

I've been called to those casual jobs where they apologized because they didn't have a guitar player and asked me do you think you can handle it?

I said I'll try......I was so happy!

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 8 Feb 2003 5:52 pm

As a guy who's spent many years playing lead guitar, I've gotta say something. I don't think I ever stepped on a steel player's part. I was always too fascinated by what they were playing, and maybe forgot to come in myself! I got it so bad that I took up steel about a year ago!

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 9 Feb 2003 9:51 am

The band I've been with for the last 2 1/2 years has a great steel player (Larry Sutphin). I've always played mostly lead and steel in groups but when I joined this band Larry was already in it and they didn't need a steel player. Since it was the only really Classic Country band in this area I was happy to join it on any instrument I could so I took the lead guitar chair when offered. When we do stuff like "Together Again", "Baby, Baby, All Night Long" and other things that I really love to play on steel I let Larry take all the rides as I think it sounds better on the steel. We do some twin things and also we split stuff like Johnny B. Goode for instance. I start out the breaks and then when it goes to the 4 chord the steel comes in. I've never worked in a band like this where the two main leads got along so well. In other groups I've been in where there was another guitar player, especially a younger one, it seems like they don't know how to play with anyone else and just keep right on playing right through your rides. One of the best steel gigs I ever did was at the old Foothill Club in Long Beach (Signal Hill) California with Billy Mize. Billy himself was a great steel player as well as the Forum's Jim Bob Sedgwick (also a steeler) who played lead in the band. I got a lot of room to play and no one cramped anyone's style. Over the years I've had more trouble with those damn fiddle players who think they're supposed to play a song from start to finish. When you have a fiddle player in the band, every song's a fiddle tune....

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 Feb 2003 10:21 am

I solved this problem by practicing more. As I have gotten to be a better musician I am able to hold my own a bit more and work in better situations.

If other musicians think you have a bad attitude you probably do.

Bob

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 9 Feb 2003 10:53 am

<SMALL>When you have a fiddle player in the band, every song's a fiddle tune.</SMALL>

Not in Texas!

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 9 Feb 2003 12:29 pm

Mr. Parish, I think in certain situations I'd have to disagree with you. In my band if I'm playing a shuffle and the drummer isn't, I'll tell him he's supposed to be playing a shuffle. If I don't tell him, how am I supposed to "then get out of his way and let him play" if he's wrong? If I subscribed to your theory I'd have fired maaaaaaaaaaaany drummers over the years because they were wrong and I couldn't rectify the situation. Sometimes I have to say, "I'm the boss and you'll play the way I ask or you won't play for me." I'm not saying this is what I do all the time because I rarely do, but there are times when a drummer has to be corrected.