How many make a living playing steel guitar?

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 29 Apr 2002 10:31 am

Hey all, if this has been covered before, forgive me, but I am very interested to know if anyone has some idea of about how many steel players out there make a living playing our amazing/maddening instrument. I mean everybody, from Paul Franklin to the guy playing in some one horse town somewhere. I am asking because I question my sanity cccasionally for dreaming of one day making a living doing this. But there are those who do, so why not? Please let me know if should be committed, or congratulated for being committed... to the steel guitar. Thanks.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 29 Apr 2002 10:34 am

I make my living playing Steel Guitar and have been since '88
Good luck.
Ricky

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 29 Apr 2002 10:51 am

Depends on what you mean by 'a living'.

Paul Franklin, Sonny Garrish, Bruce Bouton and a precious few others can make a (very) decent living without having to leave town at the drop of a hat. I'd assume that players like Gary Morse, Jeff Peterson, (oops, I almost forgot Ricky) and others who are associated with a popular recording artist do ok too.

Then you have the 'everybody else' -- and there's a bunch. Competition is fierce -- Herby Wallace just mentioned at the Michigan show that he was turned down for a regular gig near Chattanooga (Dollywood?) because all he plays is steel. THAT SUCKS. Herby could play in ANYBODY'S band. If he has trouble finding a gig, where does that rank the rest of the steel playing world? (I hope Herby doesn't mind my saying this, since he did mention this ridiculous state of affairs in public)

All-in-all, most of what I hear from folks who choose to try to support themselves playing steel is that they have a tough time of it and often end up with day jobs to supplement their picking money. Many I know play several instruments and are willing to go on the road playing rhythm guitar if that's what's called for.

I don't think this thread is going to give you any numbers or percentages to go on, since most steel players are not Forum participants. But it's a pretty safe assumption that a VERY small fraction of one percent of steel players are making the lion's share of the money.

I average a couple of gigs a week, in addition to a full time career outside the music business. I know people trying to make a living at it who don't play much more often than that. It's a tough row to hoe. At an average pay of $50 or so a night, one would have to play 1,000 gigs/year to make $50K, so most bar gigs would be out of the question -- unless you worked 3 gigs/day every day of the year. (whew!!!)

MY HAT IS OFF TO THOSE WHO CAN SUCCESSFULLY NEGOTIATE A CAREER AS A STEEL PLAYER THESE DAYS.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 29 April 2002 at 12:02 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 29 Apr 2002 11:08 am

Herbie mentioned the same at the S4Hearts show Larry...

said they were looking for "utility players", multi instrumentalists, jacks-of-all-trades-masters-of-a-couple

more power to them and anyone who's got a gig playing ANY steel, much less supporting themselfs..[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 29 April 2002 at 12:09 PM.]

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 29 Apr 2002 11:28 am

What Larry said.

One of the problems of playing the steel guitar for a living, unless you have a band of your own, is that you have to hook up with one or several bands. Sometimes it's very difficult to find a band with similar tastes and personal excesses (or lack thereof). Sometimes you have to juggle schedules with multiple bands.

If you do real concerts with bands--like where people play to hear you and sit down in seats or crowd a stadium--you might be required to play the record licks. I think that's one of the lamest requests to make of a musician. If you're lucky and/or selective like I was, then you get to play what you feel. When I joined Hoyt Axton's band in 1976, he told me, "When your solo comes up, I don't care what you do, just as long as you 'get the audience off.' That's your job."

Hoyt was great. He even rescheduled part of a tour, so that I could tour Japan with Guy Clark.

Conversely, in a band rehearsal, I helped a young lady--whose name you'd recognize--arrange her first album. She went to Nashville and recorded it. The next rehearsal, the manager showed up with a tape and said to the band, "I want you to learn these tunes note-for-note." They were far from classic licks, just Sears and Roebuck stuff. I called the manager aside and said, "I'm sorry. If you want someone to play someone else's licks, you've got the wrong person."

He said, "No, Pete. If you make this sacrifice, you can all play on the next album. We had to do this one in Nashville for political reasons. We want the band to have a unique sound and you to be part of it." I politely declined. By the third album, the bandleader, a brilliant lead guitarist and arranger, got to play rhythm guitar on ONE tune. No-one else recorded a peep.

All that having been said, I say, "Be committed!" It's a wonderful instrument that gives people joy. Do it on your own terms. You don't have to be a professional, but approach it like a pro. Do you want to sound like a pro or a dabbler? Carve out practice time. Take it away from your TV time. If you have a lawn to mow and no teenager in the household to do it, pay some kid to do it and spend the time sitting down with a good lesson tape or Band in a Box. Play with friends. Form a band. Get good. Get competent. The world needs more steel guitarists!

Go for it.

Pete Grant
www.petegrant.com
[This message was edited by Pete Grant on 29 April 2002 at 12:31 PM.]

Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 29 Apr 2002 11:51 am

Go on with it Pete!!

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JIM
"Carter SD10" "73" MSA S10, "74" LTD & NASHVILLE 400, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 29 Apr 2002 12:07 pm

A few years back I had a once's in a lifetime chance to become a well paid pro-musician.It was all based on committments, no contracts , no insurences etc. How could I ever be shure to make such a living that I could save money to pay a study for my kids, pay my morgage, and all things to give my family a decent life without worrying what the next week would bring? So I said no to that job, and had the worst time of my life for a few years. 2 years ago that band got the sac by the singer, and faced the position I worried about. The new band that was formed after that, is also without work now, so it softened my decission afterall.
I guess it had to be that way. Now I have a parttime job in teaching and parttime in playing sessions and gigs, I'm happy now. But if I had to do this whole thing again, I wouldn 't know. You have to deal with your heart, and the other party is your mind....[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 29 April 2002 at 01:26 PM.]

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 29 Apr 2002 1:14 pm

Go ahead! Live on the edge! It's a blast, and a challenge to make a living playing music. Why waste your precious time here on earth doing something you hate? Do something you love. I have a book called "Do what you love, the money will follow"...that's what I've done, and so far, it's working. I play in a couple of bands, do dous and trios during the week and a few sessions, and I'm happy. Of course, I live pretty simply, but that's the way I like it!

Emmett Roch · Post by **Emmett Roch** » 29 Apr 2002 1:49 pm

Get ready to hustle, because the competition is already out there, and they are better prepared and more well-connected than you are...

I play steel, dobro, and mandolin.

Sometimes I tour with bands and play any or all of the three.

Sometimes I play and/or record with local bands and teach all three instruments at a local music store or here at the house.

Sometimes I'm busy, and I wouldn't change what I do for anything.

Sometimes I'm not so busy, and the gravy gets a little thin, and I think of hanging it all up and gettin' me a good job somewhere...then the phone rings with another gig/student/session/tour/jam and I start getting excited all over again.

Fortunately, my life-style doesn't require a lot of money, but I make enough to support my life-style

Some make a conscious decision, educate themselves, make a plan and go from there; others are thrown into circumstances beyond their control and decide to do the best they can with what they were dealt. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

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___________________
GFI S-12 extended E9

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 29 Apr 2002 3:28 pm

I do it.......barely.

At 50, I'm in the steeling for life catagory.
I do have to lean on the "utility guy" angle pretty heavily though. It's hard to keep your eye on the prize when you're constantly having to play mediocre stuff for a less than musical general public (that also includes alot of wanna be players too) , but every now & then I am reminded why I do this in the first place. That's when I feel truly blessed.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 29 Apr 2002 3:54 pm

I did make a living playing the drums before I took up playing steel and a pretty good one too. You have to be committed. Things are different now and I wouldn't want to travel to make a living so I play around close by but I play as much as I want to and I get payed average pay. I see a lot of very good players not working in the winter here and I wouldn't want to be not working at Christmas or anytime for that matter. It's probably better anywhere but here. Players play for as little as $20 and tips here and do it all year long and may never get a good gig. I guess they figure they're paying their dues but I like to eat more regular than that so I work a day gig. I would take a wild guess and say most of the Nashville players that play a lot better than me don't have health insurance or any means of retirement. I've played enough benefits for the ones who can't pay the rent while their in the hospital or recuperating and can't work. I just don't ever want to be there and will work a day gig to keep that from happening. My hats off to the ones that will only play music but it's a hard row to hoe especially when you get older. The older you get the more the young bands don't want you. I think age is a factor as far as playing in a working band or especially a name recording act.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Apr 2002 4:11 pm

Some parts of the scenario, I do not understand. Why would any major star (let's say the top 10 names now, you all know who they are) have a problem keeping a band together? Do they have money problems? Aren't they paying enough money to keep good musicians? Or...could it be that their musicians soon get tired of playing the same old note-for-note crap 250 dates a year?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't think I could handle a job where someone was constantly telling me exactly what to play. The main reason I don't go to concerts anymore is that the star's musicians are so restricted, there's almost nothing significant (instrumentally, anyway) to listen to. (Today, it's all about the "STAR"). Anyway, if I want to hear it played "exactly like the CD", I'll buy the damn CD...and save the $30-$50 more the concert tickets would have cost! (I'm well past being a teenager, so all those fireworks, laser-light shows, and 40-thousand watt audio systems don't impress me none!

I also don't get this "utility player" thing. Most of the audience that attends these big concerts (probably 70-80%) wouldn't know an "E" note from a ransom note. They're there to see that "star" and all the attendant bullcrap spectacle. As long as there's a loud drummer, a throbbing bass, and a distorted lead guitar, they could care less about the steel, keyboard, or rhythm player not being there. But, I digress...

What was the question again?

Oh yeah, making a living at playing steel...right.
My gut feeling is that maybe one in a hundred makes a living at it, while maybe one in a thousand makes a good living at it.

autry andress · Post by **autry andress** » 29 Apr 2002 4:32 pm

Donnie: If the purty boy stars paid me enough money I would consider going to one
of their concerts. Heck I would even go see
Garth Brooks if the price was right.
O I'm sorry this is off the subject. Forgive
me. Autry

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 29 Apr 2002 6:25 pm

Though I haven't said it before, in the interest of being "Mr. Nice Guy" or something like that, what chaps my behind is when things happen like they occasionally do on other threads where pickers who work with artists that are regular Forum-bashees and targets of Forumite wrath... and you know who they are... get dissed for doing what they have to do to work in their chosen profession.

Especially irksome is when the bashers are weekend warriors with lifetime day gigs... or worse yet, living room pickers... who never had the talent or cojones to get out in the trenches, get on the bus, and go do what it takes to earn money as a full-time professional steel player.

No one is a more traditional steel player than Jim Loessberg or myself. We both have done other things but the majority of our working lives have been spent as steel guitarists. We were talking the other day, and I asked Jim if he'd take a gig with a "Hot New Country" act.

"In a New York minute, hoss," he replied.

"Me too" was my answer.

I gave up picking for a long time, not because it wasn't totally fun (which it wasn't), but because I had ceased to recognize the fact that playing was in my blood and I HAD to do it... there was no choice in the matter.

You either HAVE to gig or you don't. And sometimes following the money is what work is about, whether you're an accountant, a tool and die maker, or a musician.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 29 April 2002 at 07:26 PM.]

Bill Myrick · Post by **Bill Myrick** » 29 Apr 2002 6:46 pm

Who was it that once said "you can make tens of dollars playing one of these things" ? -

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 29 Apr 2002 7:45 pm

Durring the '80's I was a Full time Steeler..mostly with bar "cover"top 40 country and Southern Rock. That's What had to be played to get work. I was with numerous bands in some western states and the east coast, 4,5,and 6nights a week. Althiugh I had "retired" from the military..I was NOT getting my check..all of my exes were.So what I made playing was what I lived on..the best $300 to $400 per week. I wasn't (and still not) good enough to be in Nashburg or with sdome Major or rising star. I got by.
Now I play for the love of playing..anywhere, anytime, with good groups and sorry groups..But I'm learning more..I go to jams and shows.listen to tapes,CD's etc..and practice ..with the hopes that in my older age (I'm a kid at 62) I'll finaly know how and be able to play good.
It's a hard life as a pro musician..because..due to drinking laws..etc.. there just are not that many places to play anymore. ( this subject has been covered over and over)..
So unless you are a fantastic ..out of this world steel picker..earning a living doing just that is tough. Some of our BEST pickers have been " sent out to pasture' so to speak..and are doing Steel Shows,Jams and marketing there own tapes and CD's. to have an income. Who knows the answer!
GV

Tom Jordan · Post by **Tom Jordan** » 29 Apr 2002 8:52 pm

I like this topic...I played full time for about 10 years. I started out on lead and vocals, picked up steel along the way and fiddle, banjo and mandolin for flavor on selected tunes. I will never qualify as a great musician but always put a lot of enthusiasm into the gig ( If you are having a great time, the folks around you probably will also).

At that stage in life I was making a living and loving it. Music financed my long term goals and schooling and was there to make ends meet while I established myself in my career. I don't ever plan to go back to full time playing but enjoy the memories.

Although I consider myself somewhat creative and talented, I don't think that I posess the "drive" required of a sucsessful player. I did keep my gear and still enjoy playing-out casually and get an occasional studio gig though.

To all that do continue to play for a living, my hat is off to you and I wish you the best. Where would our new licks come from without you?

Tom Jordan

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 29 Apr 2002 8:57 pm

I play for a living, but I don't make a living playing. I don,t think I really understand what I said. I have played every type of venue known to mankind. Some I hated, but I hung in there. I have always worked with this in mind : The man who pays the bills makes the rules. Some gigs were an effort, but when the man handed me my money, I always had a big grin on my face. I am also blessed as my bride has a real money- making business. That could be the answer. Marry a rich woman ? Gotta go take my pill for brain damage. See you down the road, Jody.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 29 Apr 2002 8:58 pm

Living? Maybe, but it's not all steel. I have a Fri/Sat gig 49 weeks per year, playing steel/dobro and managing the talent. I work at a couple recording studios, on occasion, playing piano, bass, steel, dobro, lead and programming drums. I also have my own project room at home, in which I spend most of my time during the week. I produce albums from start to finish, sell them the racks to display them in and today I spent the day co-writing! It takes it all!

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 29 Apr 2002 9:21 pm

Herb-

Yeah, buddy.

Hit that one right on the head (as usual...).

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 29 Apr 2002 9:52 pm

"As I walk through the valley of crappy gigs I shall fear no credit card debt."

Gerald,
One thing is that as my skills develope and I am able to deal with more musical situations the money seems to get better.

Hang in there. You are doing great !

Bob

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 29 Apr 2002 10:06 pm

This is my first post on The Steel Guitar Forum. I've been reading and enjoying it for about six months. So to let you know I've been playing music for 35 years and doing it for a living for 25 years. I play guitar, banjo, mandolin, dobro, lap steel, non-pedel, and pedel steel.For most every gig I at least use Tele and steel, so yes I make a living playing steel.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 30 Apr 2002 3:47 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 May 2002 at 04:00 PM.]