Best web page creation program?

Bryan Knox · Post by **Bryan Knox** » 28 Aug 2006 10:23 am

I would like to purchase a user friendly web page creation program. I currently own Front Page, but I would like a little more advanced program, yet one I do not have to know HTML to use.

Thanks,
Bryan

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Prevent Juvenile delinquecy...teach children to STEEL

1976 MSA D-10 8+4, G&L Skyhawk, 1920 Gibson A Mandolin, Fender DPC750 w/Tubefex, 70's Fender Super Reverb, Takamine 6-String

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 28 Aug 2006 1:35 pm

I recommend CoffeeCup HTML Editor,

which contains two parts; a text editor and a visual WYSIWYG editor. I use mine for projects that require a lot of text editing, using the visual section to add or replace table data, after first creating the correct basic codes with the text section (meta tags, embeds, styles, layout). The CoffeeCup HTML Editor costs $49.00, which includes lifetime free updates (I can vouch for that). I've been using it's various incarnations since 2001, but only paid once.

I have an entire web page outlining the main features of the most useful CoffeeCup web design programs - here. If you write a lot of websites these programs can help simplify your frequent tasks (like the C.C. Google SiteMapper and DirectFTP).

The CoffeeCup HTML Editor will create Tidied (HTML Tidy) HTML and CSS that passes W3C Validation, unless you manually insert bad HTML yourself. FrontPage produces horrible, bloated, non-W3C compliant HTML that uses proprietary Microsoft code. Microsoft has ceased production of the FrontPage program and is encouraging all FrontPage users to move on to standards compliant code editors. To be fair, Microsoft is releasing a new compliant HTML editor themselves, sometime this year, or early in 2007. I don't know the pricing at this time.

If you already know your HTML well enough to write web pages without visual help, you might want to check into NoteTab Pro, which goes for $29.95. This is my main website creation tool, as I am an HTML expert, and can visualize the effects of codes without previewing every line of code.

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Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
Moderator of the SGF Computers Forum
Visit my Wiztunes Steel Guitar website at: http://www.wiztunes.com/
or my computer troubleshooting website: Wizcrafts Computer Services,
or my Webmaster Services webpage.
Learn about current computer virus and security threats here.
Read Wiz's Blog for security news and update notices[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 18 September 2006 at 09:35 PM.]

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 28 Aug 2006 6:19 pm

Macromedia DreamWeaver is pretty good.

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 28 Aug 2006 6:39 pm

Pretty expensive too.

Bryan Knox · Post by **Bryan Knox** » 29 Aug 2006 6:43 am

Wiz and Gary, 2 more questions...

1. Does Dreamweaver have a WYSIWYG editor?

2. Does Dreamweaver (being the more $$$ program) create higher quality pages?

Thanks,
B

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Prevent Juvenile delinquecy...teach children to STEEL

1976 MSA D-10 8+4, G&L Skyhawk, 1920 Gibson A Mandolin, Fender DPC750 w/Tubefex, 70's Fender Super Reverb, Takamine 6-String

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 29 Aug 2006 7:08 am

DW has 3 views, WYSIWYG, WYSIWYG plus code, and just code. It's a high end app, but you could create identical pages with any other app, including a text editor, with enough work. However, I find DW really easy to use. Once in a while you might need to tweak some code, but you don't have to know a lot of HTML to produce good pages w/DW. It might be hard to justify the expense if you are just doing web sites as a hobby, but it's a great app for pro web designers, and I highly recommend it. You can find a lot of good info on DW at http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/index.cfm?forumid=12

C#
www.calsharp.com [This message was edited by Cal Sharp on 29 August 2006 at 12:53 PM.]

Colin Goss · Post by **Colin Goss** » 29 Aug 2006 7:28 am

I'll back Wiz on that - Coffeecup is a great suite of programs, but the HTML editor is easy to use and doesn't write crap coding like F****page

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 29 Aug 2006 8:45 am

I don't understand why everyone disses
Frontpage.....it makes it possible for anyone of any skill level to create a web-site.

Does anyone care if it contains "bloated" HMTL as long as it accomplishes a good website that is pleasing to everyone's ear?

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<img height=100 width=70 src=http://genejones.bizland.com/Scan10095.jpg>
www.genejones.com

Will Holtz · Post by **Will Holtz** » 29 Aug 2006 8:51 am

I use the free Nvu which works on Windows, Macs and Linux. It's a nice tool, but development of it appears to have slowed or halted since v1.0 came out.

Henning Kock · Post by **Henning Kock** » 29 Aug 2006 11:16 am

August 29, 2006
Hi,
I am using and will recommend
CoffeeCup VisualSite Designer
from www.coffeecup.com
Its only US$49.00 and has a life time free update.
They have also a free FTP program, which I use.
I am making www.henningkmusic.dk and www.steelguitardanmark.dk
with this program. It is easy and very graphic, with ikons for many of the functions.
.
Now Anyone Can Make a Website ... No Experience Needed ! CoffeeCup VisualSite Designer is a WYSIWYG Website Creator and Editor that helps you make Web pages with no experience ... read more on www.coffeecup.com
.
Kind regards,
Henning

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! ! ! ! !
pedal steel guitar: www.henningkmusic.dk click "REJSE I USA 2005" and see text and 140 photos in 3 photo albums from Nashville, St. Louis and Branson in an automatic slide-show)
--- www.steelguitardanmark.dk
--- www.geocities.com/nashville/1520
---
piano & keyboard: www.sitecenter.dk/henning-kock
.
[This message was edited by Henning Kock on 29 August 2006 at 12:17 PM.][This message was edited by Henning Kock on 24 September 2006 at 08:30 AM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 29 Aug 2006 3:06 pm

Gene, Frontpage's biggest defect is that it will write pages that sometimes don't even show up on any other browsers than Internet Explorer.

Netscape and Firefox (basically the same thing) are also popular enough that a webpage should be viewable on them too, or you lose visitors... I've gone to many sites with Firefox, Netscape or Opera and had a blank page. Click on "view source" and I find the line "META Generator Microsoft Frontpage" every time.

I checked out the HTML on these pages and found that Frontpage will often omit the "close table" tag at the end of a table. Internet Explorer overlooks this, but none of the other browsers do and without that closing tag, nothing gets shown.

For all I know they may have corrected this in later versions, but I know that what I've described is true of many sites made with Frontpage.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 29 August 2006 at 04:07 PM.]

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 29 Aug 2006 10:48 pm

Here is the bottom line on FrontPage websites.

Microsoft has EOL'd FrontPage. That means End Of Life. No more program updates and no more Server Extensions for downloading by web hosts. The hosting companies that already have the latest version of FrontPage Server Extensions will continue to offer them as an option to keep FrontPage authors as customers. However, those hosts who do not have them will not be able to obtain them, hence, they will not support FrontPage Webs. This will only become more widespread as big hosting companies engulf smaller companies.

What this means for FP authors is that their FP "webs" with their proprietary FP "Widgets" will no longer function on the WWW. Nobody will see their websites, or they will see distorted sites missing items, just like we Firefox users do now. We do not see FrontPage Marquees or other Microsoft Widgets you create in FP. Firefox accounts for approximately 15% of the browsers that visit your websites, and the number is growing every day. If you continue to design web pages with FrontPage Extensions an increasingly larger proportion of your visitors (potential customers if you sell something) will leave without seeing anything, or only seeing a distorted representation of your website.

A lot of my Webmaster jobs involve converting FrontPage websites into modern, standards compliant ones that can be viewed properly on all modern browsers. These sites are fast loading because they use positioned DIVs instead of clumsy bloated table codes, CSS-2 for layout and font controls, instead of outdated FONT and CENTER tags, IDs and CLASSes instead of proprietary MS junk attributes inside HTML tags and much slimmer overall filesize due to correct code minus the bloat of FP.

Of course, this is all just my opinion as a professional Webmaster. I still recommend CoffeeCup products, which do create standards compliant websites for a very reasonable cost.

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Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
Moderator of the SGF Computers Forum
Visit my Wiztunes Steel Guitar website at: http://www.wiztunes.com/
or my computer troubleshooting website: Wizcrafts Computer Services,
or my Webmaster Services webpage.
Learn about current computer virus and security threats here.
Read Wiz's Blog for security news and update notices

[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 29 August 2006 at 11:52 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 30 Aug 2006 9:47 am

Wiz, thank you for the info about FP, and also thank you Jim for your comments.

I'm going to download the trial pkg of Coffe-Cup and see if I am knowledgeable enough to convert my website from FP to it. If so, I will buy the basic pkg. I'm not very versed or experienced in computerese, so changing from something where I can "find my way around" to something new is kind of scary.

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<img height=100 width=70 src=http://genejones.bizland.com/Scan10095.jpg>
www.genejones.com

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 30 Aug 2006 10:32 am

Hi, Bryan, I originally had a web designer doing my site, as I'm just too busy to spend much time working on it. He wasn't keeping up with updates, calendar, etc. so I looked around at what would do the most with the least confusion on my part- I've been very happy with Sitespinner.
Check out my website- the pages with black background are leftovers from my old designer, those with blue I did myself on sitespinner. There's a direct link on the front page to download the program, and it's cheap! Works great, and has an integral FTP engine, makes it a breeze to update. Best wishes!

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 30 Aug 2006 1:26 pm

I use Dreamweaver. It might be the "best". It's certainly the best of the ones I've used.

I developed one for Broderbund once. It wasn't as good as Dreamweaver - not by a long shot.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator 
My Blog<div style="display:none">

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 30 Aug 2006 6:14 pm

I should mention that CoffeeCup HTML Editor has a built in FTP program that can connect to multiple sites or folders to upload your changes and new files. It is does not have the features of DirectFTP, or WS_FTP, but it is free and built in.

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Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
Moderator of the SGF Computers Forum
Visit my Wiztunes Steel Guitar website at: http://www.wiztunes.com/
or my computer troubleshooting website: Wizcrafts Computer Services,
or my Webmaster Services webpage.
Learn about current computer virus and security threats here.
Read Wiz's Blog for security news and update notices

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Aug 2006 6:39 pm

OK you Dreamweaver guys... I agree it's probably the best, and there are probably some guys who are willing to spend $400 for it to make their first website. But if the guy asking about website software isn't really serious about making websites, I still think this is like telling someone who says "I think I'd like to try learning pedal steel" to go out and buy a new Zum, MSA, Emmons, or whatever.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 30 August 2006 at 07:42 PM.]

Bryan Knox · Post by **Bryan Knox** » 30 Aug 2006 6:51 pm

Well, the discussion seems to be headed toward how much usage there will be and how in depth the pages are.

I am doing a page for a friend of mine who also sells real estate. I have created pages with Front Page for myself in the past, but we want to do a pretty "in depth" web page for her. I have desktop publishing experience and she wanted me to create an interesting site for her.

I don't think anything under $500 is an issue for her for the program. My main concern is ease of use for me and being able to create an interesting site for her.

Thanks for all the great discussion. Keep it coming!!!

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Prevent Juvenile delinquecy...teach children to STEEL

1976 MSA D-10 8+4, G&L Skyhawk, 1920 Gibson A Mandolin, Fender DPC750 w/Tubefex, 70's Fender Super Reverb, Takamine 6-String

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 30 Aug 2006 11:13 pm

Well if you're an experienced website designer and cost isn't an issue, Dreamweaver is certainly one of if not the best... but I don't think you'll figure it all out overnight. If you're not on dialup, why not download the trial version and check it out? It'll work for 30 days at which time you have to pay for it or it's non-functional.

http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/ [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 31 August 2006 at 12:31 AM.]

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 31 Aug 2006 3:26 am

Jim, the title of the post is 'Best web page creation program?' I'm just saying that Dreamweaver might be the best.

Dreamweaver is used by many serious professional web designers. I can't think of any feature that it lacks. What I like most is that when I save a page, it can automatically upload it to the live site. I don't have to remember to upload my pages.

I know it's expensive, but if you work with web sites every day it's a worthwhile investment. If you just need something to update your site once a month, it's probably overkill.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator 
My Blog<div style="display:none">

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 31 Aug 2006 10:07 am

Jim, the title of the post is 'Best web page creation program?'

But then he goes on to say "a user friendly web page creation program. I currently own Front Page, but I would like a little more advanced program" I think that modifier should be considered too, not just stopping at "best".

I know it's expensive, but if you work with web sites every day it's a worthwhile investment. If you just need something to update your site once a month, it's probably overkill

That's all I'm saying.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 31 Aug 2006 10:32 am

Chuckle, chuckle, waiting to see what happens next.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 31 Aug 2006 11:18 am

Yep... well I don't know why I need to keep apologizing or justifing what I said. If someone reads my posts I said YES DREAMWEAVER IS PROBABLY THE BEST... twice! I just said it's expensive, maybe overkill depending on exactly how much you're going to use it or whatever. I said basically the same thing b0b has just posted. I also suggested he download it and give it a try. So where's the argument?

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 31 August 2006 at 03:38 PM.]

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 31 Aug 2006 4:50 pm

Here is another well spoken of WYSIWYG Website creation program, Adobe GoLive, which costs $399.00 list.<img src="http://www.ftjcfx.com/14100iw-ousDMGKILFDFEIGIJEH" width="1" height="1" border="0"/>

Top new features

New Adobe® GoLive® CS2 software helps you unlock the power of CSS and take your ideas to new places with powerful mobile authoring tools based on CSS/XHTML, SVG Tiny, SMIL, and other global standards. No matter what your design goals, you have the freedom and flexibility that comes with building on open standards and the power to leverage your existing Adobe assets through tight integration with the other Adobe Creative Suite components.

* Enhanced live rendering
* Simple visual tools to build and edit CSS-based pages
* Visual CSS authoring for mobile devices
* Visual SVG-t inspection and authoring for mobile
* Total site management

* Complete development environment for OMA, W3C, and 3GPP standards
* Collaborative asset management
* Quick Start developer mode
* Automated favicon creation
* Enhanced InDesign Package for GoLive
<hr>
BTW: Adobe now owns and distributes Dreamweaver, that sells for $399.00.<img src="http://www.afcyhf.com/5q70xjnbhf0937582021486A32" width="1" height="1" border="0"/>

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Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
Moderator of the SGF Computers Forum
Visit my Wiztunes Steel Guitar website at: http://www.wiztunes.com/
or my computer troubleshooting website: Wizcrafts Computer Services,
or my Webmaster Services webpage.
Learn about current computer virus and security threats here.
Read Wiz's Blog for security news and update notices[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 31 August 2006 at 06:07 PM.]

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 31 Aug 2006 4:59 pm

If you're good at desktop publishing, Dreamweaver's learning curve isn't all that steep. There are a lot of interesting 3rd party templates available for it, too. I was experimenting with one last year. See http://new.b0b.com

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator 
My Blog<div style="display:none">