Soundcard Recommendations

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 13 Jul 2003 5:19 pm

Can anyone recommend a good soundcard for putting my music collection on my harddrive, and maybe even try to record directly from an amp or microphone as well?

The Soundblaster 64V PCI card I have now seems adequate, but I get a lot of "overdrive" clipping when I playback the recording, even with the recording volume set low (at 1 or 2).

I did a test recording of an album with my sound card, and a newer Soundblaster Live 5.1 card, and the 5.1 card seems to have a better sound overall....it handled the louder parts of the music without producing the overdrive clipping (and the volume was set at normal levels, rather than down to 1-2).

Looking at the new Soundblaster Audigy 24 bit sound cards, what does 24 or 16 bit technology actually mean? Would this be a good soundcard for my purposes of preserving a music collection, and making my own recordings? I'm not into gaming, so don't need a soundcard for intense gaming...

Thanks for any help!

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 13 Jul 2003 11:52 pm

Al soundcards convert audio signals into numbers, with the size of the number representing how loud the signal was at one tiny moment in time.
If you had only one bit, the only thing you could record would be loud or silent, one or Zero.
With sixteen bits you can record sound levels from zero to 90 decibels. For music with a small dynamic range, like Dixieland Jazz or Rock that is fine, but for music that has very quiet bits and very loud bits in it, like classical music it's not enough, and you can often hear a grainyness in the sound on the quiet bits.
Twenty four bits gives you a recording format which has a dynamic range as good as a good pair of ears, so you don't get that grainyness.
Now having said all that, and accepting that 24 bit is better, there is a lot of controversy about the Audigy card because it is not true 24 bit. On the other hand, neither is your CD player!
There are much better cards for the pro and semi pro recording market, but they are a lot pricier. M Audio, Hammerfall, Digidesign are worth looking into.
Instead of looking here, check out the articles in Sound on Sound www.sospubs.co.uk
Paul White and his crew know what they are talking about and can express in in simple English.
I did have a similar problem with a SBL card. I think that the meter does not follw the signal level very well. The only easy way round it is to record with about 12-15dB headroom. That's techie talk for setting it so that the peak signals at at about -15 or -12 on the meters. You'll need to go into the Windows volume control, then click "Properties, then select "Record Settings" then make sure that "Line In" is included on the volume controls,then "OK" then you will see the slider that controls your record level.

Cheers
Dave[This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 14 July 2003 at 12:57 AM.]

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 14 Jul 2003 5:22 am

Jeff, you should be able to get that soundblaster card working correctly by tweaking some levels. But, if not...

I wouldn't spend much on a soundcard unless you plan to do a lot of pro-quality multitrack recording. You can now get a killer PCI card for around $50. As far as 16 vs 24 bit goes, remember that a CD is a 16-bit medium. So, why in the world would you need to record in 24-bit? On the other hand, the price of 24-bit cards is also taking a swan-dive right now. I record using a 16-bit card and it sounds great- like a CD.

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 14 Jul 2003 8:15 am

I have recently been recording some vinyl and cassettes onto my harddrive to make CD's to listen to in the car, and to play them on the harddrive for practice. I have been using Ripvinyl to do the recording.

I have been using my little Berringer Eurodeck mixer to set the levels, using it more as a padding device than as an amplifier. I tried to get a good level with just the stereo and the soundcard but it was always too hot. With the Berringer, I can set the stereo volume to about 4 to get a good signal, and pad it down before it goes into the soundcard.

I do the same to record with Band in a Box.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 14 Jul 2003 5:53 pm

I've just replaced my soundblaster live card from about 4 years ago to Soundblaster Auidgy 2 platinum ex. My reasons were to update my system, and even more to get the breakout box for in/output. It has quarter inch jacks for input as well as midi in/out, firewire and other stuff. I may not use it all, but it beats tryng to input stuff through a shakey 1/8 jack at the back of the computer.

Soundwise, I haven't played with it enough to get a handle on it, but I believe it's better. I don't play games either, and I have a separate sound module for midi stuff.

The cost for the unit was $250, including 2nd day air and handling. There is a bunch of software included that I haven't played with.

My opinion: You can probably use a cheaper soundcard and get by, but if you would like a robust outboard unit to input live picking and mikes, this is the way to go.

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 16 Jul 2003 1:03 am

Here's why 24 bit is better.
Suppose the US government had a round numbers policy, so they did not have to bother with fiddly little numbers.
You earn $950 dollars.
They round that down to $900 before they pay you.
You pay tax on $950, but they round that up to 1000 to make the sums easier.
Tax rate is 17%, so they call that 20%.
You have $900 less $200 tax - net pay $700

Now we do it the 24 bit way.
$950 x 17%=$161.5
950-161.5=$788.50
Now we do the rounding once at the end- we are mastering to 16 bit.
Round that up you get £800
You are $100 dollars better off.
This is a crude example but it does make the point that the lower the bit rate the more appoximations are made and the cruder those approximations are. Pro recordings are kept in 24 bit format until the final stage, when they are converted once, and with the benefit of clever "dither" algorithms that make the rounding up or down behave more sensibly.
I always find it amazing that on this Forum, there is post after post on "Electronics" about effect settings and amp and speaker choice, all in the quest for "Tone", yet there are posts on "Computers" which say "Cheap Soundcards are OK". "MP3s sound great" so on and so on...
Do you turn off your ears when you turn on your PC?
Or do you not know that your bog standard PC or Mac can produce world class quality, if you know how to use it?
Sorry, a bit of an audiophile rant!
No offence!
Cheers
Dave[This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 16 July 2003 at 02:05 AM.]

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 16 Jul 2003 6:01 am

That's it! I'm switching to the 24 bit tax bracket!

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 17 Jul 2003 6:46 pm

LMAO!

That's great Dave! I like your philosophy!

I'll probably head up to Best Buy this weekend and pick one up. I'm leaning heavily toward an external USB unit with quater-inch jacks. It's more than I want to spend, but I think in the long run, I'll be happier with the more versitile, higher- end unit.

Plus, it would put me in the better tax bracket!

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 19 Jul 2003 4:08 pm

I checked out the Soundblaster Audigy Platinum (24 bit) at Best Buy, but it requires a 5 1/4 bay for the unit with the quater inch jacks, and I only have a 3.5 bay.

I do have a small mixer board, so I guess as long as I have the instruments/stereo system going into the mixer, I would just have the one cable to the line input.

So, I may get the regular Audigy 2 (not Platinum).

However, it only has one 1/8 inch "line in." The Audigy Platinum has an RCA L and R line in, just like a stereo system.

"Soundwise", would there be any difference between the RCA seperate L and R input, or the 1/8 inch line input? Like Ken says, it would seem that having seperate channels would be better....??[This message was edited by Jeff Strouse on 19 July 2003 at 05:10 PM.]

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 19 Jul 2003 4:26 pm

Jeff: If you go for the whole deal, that is, Adigy 2 platinum ex, you don't need to worry about a front bay. Just plug in the soundcard. The external unit plugs into the sound card in back and has about a 3 foot cord so you can place it where you choose.

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 20 Jul 2003 12:41 pm

Thank Ken!

I see what you mean now...The "Platinum" needs the 5 1/4" bay, whereas the "Platinum ex" has a stand alone unit...

------------------
Jeff Strouse

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 23 Jul 2003 5:22 pm

Folks;

I use the Audigy card in a 1 mHz Pentium box w/2 80GB HDD's. Tied to my mixer board in & out w/patch cords from RadioShack that have two RCA's on one end and a 1/8" stereo plug on the other.

Watch out with your PC's volume control application.... that's the program that gives you the sliders for output, MIDI, line in, microphone, etc. It's under START-PROGRAM-ACCESSORIES-VOLUME CONTROL.

If I have Line In and Wave Out up at the same time, and PC to Mixer channel up on the mixer panel, my Audigy Card goes nuts. Otherwise everything works fine.

Could be I've got wires crossed but thought it was worth mentioning.

Regards.