Is There Software That....

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 17 Jul 2003 9:41 am

Just wondering if anyone knows if there is software available that will allow you to take a commercial CD, download it into your computer, separate the tracks, and let you eliminate certain tracks? The object here is that on the way to work today, listening to the radio, I heard this cool jazz version of "Fly Like an Eagle", with a lead guitar. I was thinking if I could get that without the lead guitar, substitute my steel, it would be so cool. Kind of like recording in reverse. Making back up tracks, instead of building, just eliminating what you don't want. Anybody know of any software that would enable me to do this?

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 17 Jul 2003 10:31 am

To the extent your describing - I've not seen any yet. Would be a nice surprise if it did exist. Once a tune is mixed to stereo, discrete instrument sounds can't be totally isolated. There are some options to try however.

1) You can use 'center channel elimiation' (mixing out of phase L channel with an unaltered R channel, pan them center). Most digital audio software packages will have this function. Or do it on your mixer. Anything that's panned dead center in the mix will be reduced or disappear. (Karaoke trick) IF the lead guitar is in the center, AND it's not washed in reverb this operation may take it down enough for you to work with it. Sometimes works for vocals with the caveats mentioned and often some radical EQing is also needed. The downside is that everything else mixed dead center is reduced or goes away! In modern mixes 99.9% of the time the kick drum and bass go bye-bye cause they are panned in the center. You only hear them if they recorded stereo overhead mics on the drums. Also, stereo reverb shows up everywhere so 100% elimination is rare. Radical EQing can make things disappear in the mix too - but results vary.

2) groove MIDI sample - some MIDI software will create MIDI files from audio samples. But it's limited in capability. (MIDI gurus please jump in). You can create a MIDI track from audio if it's a pure melody line, or a drum beat etc. - but can't pull all instruments from a stereo mix. Then you play the MIDI sequence with the instrument sound you want.

3) some DVD's and 5.1 source material have alternate mixes you can mess with. I've not tried these myself.

4) Buy the Karaoke version!

best,
Chris

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon" www.book-em-danno.com

[This message was edited by seldomfed on 17 July 2003 at 11:53 AM.][This message was edited by seldomfed on 17 July 2003 at 11:55 AM.]

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 17 Jul 2003 2:29 pm

There are a number of "vocal removers" out there. I see no reason that they couldn't remove guitar instead. Here's one:
http://www.sofotex.com/download/software/1782.html

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 18 Jul 2003 9:23 am

There are tricks you can play in the wiring of your speakers to remove a vocal that is recorded equally on both sides.

I don't think you'll be able to completly remove an instrument from a stereo mix without harming some other instruments.

There's a saying in the studio:
"You can't unmix paint."

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 18 Jul 2003 9:34 am

Sorry pal - forget it. Like an anti-gravity machine,what you describe is not possible and never will be.Why? Because once the multitracked master is mixed down to a pair of stereo audio tracks,it is forever inseperable. Trying to take out the guitar is like trying to take the sugar out of a cake after its baked. The Thompson Vocal Eliminator and other hyped up gadgets just remove the center information - invariably leaving right/left ghosts of what you are trying to remove - emasculating the record in the process.There are much more sophsticated EQ/phase manipulation software around that the FBI and CIA use for forensic audio restoration similar to what mastering engineers use to fake up 5.1 soundtracks for old mono movies for DVD release and some things I've heard done are pretty amazing. But this kind of software is usually custom made,highly proprietary and closely held by the in-house engineer who wrote it and gets $350 - 1K an hour to use it. And it's extremely labor intensive to get it to do it's thing - a lot of trial and error,etc because there can be no automatic mode. It's all guided by human ears and fishing thru hundreds of bands of parametric EQ and phase relationships. Anyhow it stll wouldn't do what you're asking very well. So it'd be cheaper to hire the Steve Miller Band to cut you a new track.

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 18 Jul 2003 11:00 am

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I suspected as much, but thought there might be something out there.

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 19 Jul 2003 3:58 am

Billy,

You can check out this LBR-100 - Lead / Bass / Rhythm Isolator and let us know if it works.

Bob

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Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 19 Jul 2003 7:41 am

Bob...
I will need more information as to what that unit/software/gadget is. Thanks for your interest.

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 19 Jul 2003 9:03 am

http://www.reedkotler.com/LBR_100.htm

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Jul 2003 12:10 pm

Unless they can make an alogrythm that tracks the harmonics and precice frequencies of a given instruments sound, AND decern that from other program material this won't be built.
The likely hood of it being done is very, very small.
~Not to mention that it would remove all other instruments sounds in the same frequency space it is tracking. Since they are effectively blended together.

The "vocal removers" work by putting the 2 stereo channels out of phase to each other and feeding them into each other in an adjustable ratio.
Thus cancelling any program, such as lead vocals, that was mixed dead center.
Of course any off center program like left and right harmony vocals will still come though.

But this also typically also wipes out the bass guitar too. I have seen one you could limit the bandwidth of the cancellation to mostly vocal frequencies. But I still find it not very effective.

Can you remove the basil from your tomato sauce after it's been cooked... I think not.
It's the same with a mix.

It's usually best to do a backing track yourself if you can.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 July 2003 at 01:33 PM.]