Who's an Ace at Biab

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 10 Mar 2001 4:43 pm

I purchased BIAB Ver 10 with all the bells & whistles. Seems my 1999 Compaq computer isn't producing the sound I would like to hear. The keyboard sound on any song or style stinks and when any of the guitars play they sound like the keyboard. Now when I play a CD like Alan Jackson the computers puts out a nice sound. The BIAB instructional CD sounds great when the instructor demonstrates how to play songs & styles etc. I also have BIAB, BLUES GUITARIST which sounds great. I only wish BIAB would sound like the other CDS etc.
Is it my sound card or how my MIDI is set up.

Also who's the ace of BIAB in the pedal steel guitar community. I need some help with BIAB

KEN

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Mar 2001 5:06 pm

BIAB uses MIDI to implement any instrument sound, where an MP3, WAV etc is a recording of actual instruments.

I suspect your sound board's MIDI synthesizer is the culprit. Many of the sound modules that are supplied with PC's are not the best in the world. The Roland VSC88 software MIDI instrumentation may improve the sound of the instruments. Sometimes PG Music includes that as part of a package with BIAB, check the software you got and see if it was provided.

However, I have an older SoundBlaster AWE64 sound card and the built in synthesizer sounds better than the Roland VSC88. An upgrade to a better sound card may be what is needed too, such as the current SoundBlaster Live cards.

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 11 Mar 2001 4:42 pm

JACK - Thanks for the help. BIAB did come with Roland VSC88 sound canvas but it did not help BIAB sound at all. But when a friend gave me a diskette full of downloaded midi sound files,(not CD copied songs) most of them country music songs, WOW did my computer sound great, like a real backup band when I muted certain instruments. But like I said when I play BIAB the sound is very dry and has no guts at all. You are right about the sound card, I need to get a new one most likely the new Soundblaster live.

What I like to know is why do I have a sound card that has no good sound. If I play a regular CD like Alan Jackson his CD sounds real good.

I even tried hooking up my home stereo BOSE speakers to the computer and still the same result. A $29.99 Casio keyboard sounds better than my current sound card. So it looks like I'll be making a purcahse of a new soundcard.

Again thanks for the help.

KEN

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 11 Mar 2001 4:59 pm

I just wanted to second Jack's post. I bought soundblaster live about a year ago, and the sounds were better than my first soundcard (a real cheapy), but still not good enough for me. Soundblaster platinum may be better but I've not heard it.

The virtual sound card included with biab wasn't good enough either. I ended up buying the Roland JV 1010 sound module for around $500. The instrument sounds on this are about as good as it gets for midi, tho the banjo voice sucks; not that anyone here would care much.

So, yes, biab uses the sound card you have in your computer and your only choice is to upgrade. If you would like to hear a song with the JV 1010 sound module, email me, and I'd be glad to send you a cassette. If you have a particular song you'd like to compare with your setup, let me know.
Ken

Les Pierce · Post by **Les Pierce** » 13 Mar 2001 7:11 am

Kenneth,

I haven't had BIAB for years, but it sounds like your MIDI out device is different between BIAB and your default MIDI player.

I would guess that your default MIDI player was using the "virtual" sound driver, and BIAB was using the FM chip on the sound card. (Which always sounds terrible).

Try looking around in BIAB for a place to change the "MIDI Device Out", I'm sure it's there somewhere.

Take care,

Les

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 13 Mar 2001 11:47 am

Im with Les on this one...

John Paul Jones · Post by **John Paul Jones** » 13 Mar 2001 2:19 pm

Les is right.

I just got BIAB v10. After installing VSC88 (Virtual Sound Canvas) I get GREAT sounds... no need to get another sound card.

Click on 'Opt..'.
Click on 'MIDI driver setup'
Select 'Roland VSC-88' for output.
Move selected 'Roland VSC-88' to top.

After selecting 'Roland VSC-88' your computer will not be using your sound card's sounds... only the Virtual Sound Card' sounds.

Roland VSC-88 will drive you computer speakers and line out.

To drive a MIDI device you'll have to select a MIDI driver, like MPU-401.

John Paul Jones

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 13 Mar 2001 4:55 pm

I first want to thank all you guys who responded to my post.

I also have BIAB ver10 along with Roland VSC88. I installed it into BIAB and got some improvement. The instruments did improve in sound quality but I still think I can do better with a more powerful and newer soundcard. My friend has BIAB Ver 9 installed in an older PC and he upgraded his soundcard which cost about $300.00. His BIAB sound as if you were hearing a live performance, the sound of the instruments etc. are so real and professional, blows my newer PC away.

So when I get my tax return I'll be purchasing a new soundcard.

Now my next project after I get BIAB to run wild is the choices there are between CD burners. Either rack mounted (Sony or Tascom system) or computer CD burners. I'll leave this subject to a later date. For now it's on to getting my BIAB to sound like a professional band.
KEN

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 13 Mar 2001 9:33 pm

So Ken, which soundcard are you going to buy? I'd be interested to compare with the JV-1010. I'm always interested in finding something that may be better.
Ken

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 14 Mar 2001 4:04 pm

KEN to Ken, before I buy a new soundcard I'll be asking the salesman at the computers stores their opinion then I'll do some research on the Internet and finally where I work is a big computer section with computer experts. Some one should be able to come up with a great soundcard. I do know for now that Soundblaster Live (the newest version) is a very good possibility but again I'll do my research untill I get my tax return check.

KEN (That's Me, here in Davie, Florida)

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 14 Mar 2001 7:50 pm

K. K.
Go to the BandInABox website, which is at www.pgmusic.com and go the their 'off topic' forum - from there you can do a search for such topics such as 'sound cards', etc.
One approach to your dilemna might be getting an inexpensive sound card such as the 'Soundblaster Live Value' card which not only has its own sound banks but allows you to load 'sound fonts' of your choice (often free from the 'web').

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 16 Mar 2001 7:25 am

The Guru of BIAB within the pedal steel community is Big Jim Baron. He's extremely helpful. You can reach him at bigjim4b@madnet.net By the way, when you play a commercial CD in your computer, it doesn't use the soundcard. The sounds are already on the CD, so your CD's will sound great even if your soundcard sucks. I use VSC-88 and think mine sounds great. I guess your mileage may vary?

------------------
www.jimcohen.com

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Mar 2001 7:56 am

How do you get the sound to the speakers if you don't use a sound card???

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 16 Mar 2001 8:22 am

How do you get the sound to the speakers if you don't use a sound card???

LOL -- good point.

Presumably, he meant that it doesn't matter how good your MIDI is on your sound card.

Then again, with an external CD-drive, you can go directly from RCA outs to your home stereo if you wish. No sound card needed!

------------------
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 17 Mar 2001 6:54 am

Hi All, I'm a little confused right now.
Can we settle this once and for all?

Does the new BIAB Version 10 come with
or without the Roland VSC88? I have BIAB
9 or 9c, but is it worth the extra $ to
upgrade to Ver.10. Or better put, is it
worth upgrading to? Does the VSC88 really make a better audio improvement?

According to BIAB's MIDI SETUP the soundcard
I have listed is ASC Audio Master.

Thanks all, for clearing this up.

chipsahoy

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 17 Mar 2001 7:53 am

I have a Hewlett Packard 6640C computer with the factory sound card, whatever that is, going to a 500 watt Sampson amp, to Alesis Monitor Twos. It sounds great. Also I usually just import my BIAB songs into Cakewalk and go through my Roland JV1010 sound module, then you can pick what instruments you want to use and a lot of differnt sounds for each type of instrument. Also you can pick the type of drummer you want and can make them slow down at the endings, or anyway, or anyplace you wish in the song. The GM sounds from the Roland sound good, just using them.

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 17 Mar 2001 4:52 pm

CHIP - BIAB Ver #10 includes the ROLAND VSC88, you proably can upgrade for a very small price from PGMUSIC. I finally was able to fix up BIAB sounds with the VSC88 and thus far it sounds very good, it was a big improvement over what COMPAQ had installed as a sound card. I'm still going to upgrade my soundcard to either a Yamaha OR Soundblaster.

For all those who have been following my post I went to COMP USA today hunting for a soundcard. No Yamaha but they did have SOUNDBLASTER LIVE 5.1. for $199.00. I was also told to try and upgrade my speakers system to include a sub woofer (4+1 speaker system). Most likely I'll hunt for the Yamaha at MARS, SAM ASH or GUITAR center. Best Buy also sells SB LIVE 5.1 at $199.00.

KEN

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 17 Mar 2001 7:43 pm

Soundblaster live! Platinum 5.1, $169.95 at Buy.com

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Mar 2001 3:41 am

The Platinum version comes with a front panel I/O unit. You have to have an open 5 1/4" slot (size of a CD unit) in your PC or it won't do you any good. If you don't have the open slot to mount the I/O unit, go for the Soundblaster Live MP3 5.1, it is about $100 at Best Buy. This model is basically the same thing without the I/O panel, but is upgradeable to the front mounted unit.

Best Buy has another interesting audio card with an external I/O unit that is separate and connects via a cable to the back of the sound card. It has all the I/O connections plus USB in a separate unit, instead of mounting in the PC like SoundBlaster. I think it was $150.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 18 Mar 2001 4:12 am

Thanks Kenneth and everyone for clearing
up the BIAB/VSC88.
chipsahoy

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 18 Mar 2001 9:57 am

So then, which one of these should I buy for BIAB? I am not a gamer, just interested in good sound. These are Canadian prices. Or are there better cards available???

Sound Blaster AWE 64 "SB-AWE64" $29.99

Sound Blaster 16 PCI Sound Card Bulk packaging "SB-ENSONIC" $35.99

Sound Blaster 128 PCI BULK packaging "SB-128" $51.99

Sound Blaster live (Value) BULK packaging "SB-LIVE" $84.99

Sound Blaster Live X-Gamer (Retail) "SB-LIVEXGAMER" $159.99

Sound Blaster Live Platinum 5.1"SB-5.1PLATINUM" $349.99

Sound Blaster Live X-Gamer 5.1 (Retail) "SB-5.1XGAMER" $179.99

Sound Blaster Live MP3+ 5.1(Retail) "SB-5.1MP3" $179.99
Joe[This message was edited by Joe Delaronde on 18 March 2001 at 09:59 AM.]

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 18 Mar 2001 3:46 pm

JACK STONER - You are right with that I/O unit, SB Live Platinum comes with a rear board, then they have the front loading I/O unit, my PC has room for two more front loading units. COMP USA charges $39.95 for installation and $199.00 for the SB Live Platinum package. I still want to find a Yamaha soundcard, hopefully Mars or Sam Ash has the Yamaha in stock, I would like to hear what their salesperson has to say on a professional level regarding the difference in soundcards. For now the SB Platinum looks good.

JOE - $349.00 is a high price for the SB Platinum. Can't you mail order the SB Live package.

KEN

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Mar 2001 5:41 pm

Ken, be careful that it's not a "salesman" talking - read trying to sell you what he has in stock.

It would be great to get an honest read on some of the other sound cards but I get leery as many of the sales persons in some of the music stores know less than the customers about the technical aspects of the products they sell.

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 18 Mar 2001 6:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
many of the sales persons in some of the music stores know less than the customers about the technical aspects of the products they sell.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How true.... How true....[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 18 March 2001 at 06:36 PM.]

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Mar 2001 1:50 pm

Ken,
I just got back from CompUsa and checked out their SB cards. I have SBLiveMP+3, but
I think it has been corrupted, so that's why I went to look for one to replace it. I think I paid $79 or $99 for it a couple of years ago. I checked out the Platinum card,
and they had it listed at $199. But I've known one of the guys over there now for a couple of years and he's been straight with me all along. He said that the Platinum isn't much of an improvemrent over SBLiveMP+3, but in only that there is a remote control and some sort of exterior box.
He said about half the price is really to pay for the remote control apparatus.
FWIW
chipsahoy