The ideal amp

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 12 Dec 2005 9:40 am

I'm currently not happy with my amp situation. I've tried a number of things, and have been unhappy with them all.

When I got my pedal steel, I originally ran it through a nashville 112 which I had picked up. I know its a great amp but it just didn't have the sound I was looking for. I sold it and bought a fender Delux tube amp reissue. sounds great with my lap steels, but I'm not sure it has the range I want for my pedal. The best thing I've found so far is running it through my POD and listening to headphones, and ideally.

I'm playing mostly jazz and blues. Ideally I'd like an amp that made my pedal sound like a really great jazz guitar. I also love the pod and the ability to switch in a distorted electric lead sound.

What's the perfect amp for me? What will make me happy (I already know the answer - nothing).

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 12 Dec 2005 10:00 am

If you like the POD as I do, get a good loud amp with a 15" speaker. Session or Nashville 400 or a Fender Vibrosonic. These amps work without the POD but work exceptionally well with it. THe clean sounds are variable and the dirty ones are fat. No amp is perfect.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 12 Dec 2005 10:24 am

If budget isn't an issue, you might look into a THD BiValve head. And then you can spend a small fortune on various vintage and current tubes to find the combination that works best for you. As an amp head it's just loud enough to work a small club. At a "friendly" volume, it had just enough overdrive to put some "whiskers" on the sound. I've used it, in the studio, for "big" overdrive on 'metal/noise' recordings.

It also can be used as a pre amp into somethng more powerful and it has a switch that adds in a transformer, so it can be used in the guitar input of a regular amp.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 12 Dec 2005 10:37 am

PODxt into a power amp mounted in an old cabinet along with a 15" Deltalite. About 40 lbs. and 500 watts.

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[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 25 December 2005 at 10:25 AM.]

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 12 Dec 2005 10:46 am

Webb is the best steel amp ever made. Next to that either a Fender Steel King or Fender Custom Twin 15. they are the only two amps I've heard that come close to a Webb. Peavey's sound like a transistor radio next to them. I will say that a Peavey 112 with a 12" Black Widow souded pretty good to me.

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 12 Dec 2005 11:21 am

Jay, there is something, er uh, un-natural about that rig! I think you best find the brains for that old tweed and re-introduce they selves... -L-

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 12 Dec 2005 12:19 pm

Tom,
I've got another (brains & all) that sounds outrageous, but those old Bassmans were only
40 watts. On stage with a loud band, it tends to get a bit lost.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Dec 2005 1:51 pm

Bill, you just need a 100-300 watt designed-for-steel amp with a 15" speaker, like most steelers use. Any of them will work better for you that what you have had. To begin with, you need 100-300 watts in a steel amp, to match the volume regular guitarists get from a 25 to 50 watt amp. This is because of the way you use the volume pedal backed off, with the rest of the volume reserved for sustain. Also, because of the way you sustain and swell thick chords on pedal steel, the amp has to play very clean, so you don't want to have to use it maxed out. Also, the bar and finger picks are not as loud as holding the strings against the frets and flailing away with a flat pick and your whole arm. The bottom line is you need an amp four times bigger, just to keep up. Although Peavey did really well with the NV112, most pedal steel amps use 15" speakers. Steel guitars tend to be bright or even shrill sounding, and the 15" speaker just mellows out the highs and mids a little, and gives nice, full, organ-like lows. Most steelers prefer them.

Now that you know the size amp you need, you have to try some different things and make a few decisions. First you have to decide if you want solid state or tube. There are differences between solid state sounds, but to me they all sound a bit sterile at low volumes, and sound terrible at high volume. Nevertheless, most pedal steelers use them, because they play very clean, are inexpensive, and can be light (although the older ones are heavy). You can probably get a nice clean mellow jazz tone with any of them. You wont get good blues tone, but adding fuzz or distortion with a POD or other FX unit might get you close enough. Peavey has set the industry standards for stage volume, work horse, reasonably priced, 15", solid state steeler amps. But there are others (costlier), such as Standel, Weber, Evans, Stereo Steel, and the new Fender Steel King, that some prefer. You can also rack mount separate preamp, power amp and speakers, and the sky is the limit with those components.

If you decide to go with the tube sound (which I prefer), there are not as many choices as you might think. Most tube guitar amps are not good for steel. They are not voiced for steel (too much high end, not enough low), and don't have enough clean headroom. The best ones I have found are the Fender silver face Twin family (Twin, Dual Showman, Vibrosonic, Super Twin). Of these, the late '70s ultralinear 135 watt models are best (have the most clean headroom). The Super Twin, with 180 watts and two separate EQ channels is my favorite, if you need that much volume. The earlier blackface models that 6-stringers pay top dollar for, don't have adequate clean headroom in my experience, save your money. Also, the '90s reissues of the Vibrasonic Custom and the '65 Twin are modeled after the black face Twin, and have the same problem. Unfortunately the new Twin Custom 15 is the same thing, just with a 15" speaker. All these big tubers are really heavy. Some of us deal with that by putting the chassis in a head cabinet and using separate speakers. That also allows you to match them with a 15" speaker (or two). There are other tube options such as THD that might work for you if you can mike them, or boost them with a big power amp or powered speakers.

Bottom line: you need a big clean playing amp, solid or tube, and one or two 15" speakers. Beyond that, the tone is going to be in your hands.

Jim Dempsey · Post by **Jim Dempsey** » 12 Dec 2005 4:29 pm

Bill,-check out what i'm selling,you might like?-JD

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 12 Dec 2005 5:26 pm

David, your reply is beyond the call of duty. Thank you, and the rest of you.

Marc Weller · Post by **Marc Weller** » 12 Dec 2005 9:29 pm

I have a great sounding older Vibrosonic Reverb but, unfortunately, it did not come with roadies and it's getting pretty rough loading that thing in and out of my trunk. I've been gigging with my 70's silverface Deluxe Reverb and it's plenty loud for my band but lacks bass for the C6 stuff. So I've just purchased a Stromberg Carlson Au-33 which is a 40's PA tube amp that my amp tech tells me is very similar schematically to a '59 Bassman. I've got a 15" JBL D130F and I'm wondering whether I'd be better off with an open or closed cabinet. Suggestions ?

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 13 Dec 2005 11:13 pm

I'm with Chas on this. If you said you wanted to sound like the country guys on the records I would have kept quiet but if you want a big fat blues and jazz sound, a THD BiValve and THD 2X12" cabinet is just the ticket. IMHO none of the amps that most steel players love are great for blues or jazz.

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James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 15 Dec 2005 11:12 am

Bill,
You are welcome to come over anytime..
You will see that you will be like a kid in a Pedal Steel Music store at my home...I have a few different amps that if they don't pass your test , you're in trouble !! You can go into any of about 6 or more different preamps, you can plug into a Webb, or a Steel King, or a Carr Slant 6, or a 62 Fender Concert , or an old tweed Bassman , or......The list goes on ....Pack up your steel and come on over ...........Sincerely, Jim

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 15 Dec 2005 3:05 pm

Kevin, I have tried several times to get a tone out of a Webb to no avail. The ideal amp, however, is the one you like ....

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 15 Dec 2005 8:47 pm

Ideally I'd like an amp that made my pedal sound like a really great jazz guitar

Bill, to start with, IMO, you can get a good jazz sound out of an N112. I use a pair, and I feel they are better for playing C6 jazz than either the N400, or N1000, both of which have 15" speakers (I own all those amps). I'm not alone in this assessment. The N112 is on it's way to becoming the most popular Peavey steel amp ever made.

However, more importantly, I don't think you will ever get a steel guitar to sound like a Gibson jazz 6-string guitar. What you need to do is adjust the EQ and reverb to make the sound less twangy and bright than your typical country settings. Then you have to use your technique or develop additional technique in order to present your jazz in a way that has the articulation of a jazz guitarist, horn player, or pianist. If you develop your technique in that regards, I am convinced the matter of the tone of the amp will be far less significant.

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